Wiped Cam :( - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Wiped Cam :(

Well, I decided to finally pull my valve cover off and have a look at my cams. Car has been running fine, I just wanted to check it. Looks like the exhaust cam is fine but the intake cam is toast. All the large lobes are badly scored. Looks like I will be replacing the cam and taking steps to hopefully prevent this in the future.

2005, 54K miles, no track time that I know of.
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post #2 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 08:57 PM
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Dang, that's not cool. I had a different cam failure mode and have new intake and exhaust cam. I have x thousand miles and I guess I need to take a look soon. It's always a hassle for me because I have to remove intercooler et al. I guess it's one situation where you want to know before you find out...


Seems even if you do everything right with when you get on it, and everything else you can get unlucky multiple times on that intake cam!
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post #3 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 10:40 PM
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Fortunately the parts aren't vey expensive and if you're mechanically inclined, the job is not very difficult. If you choose to do it yourself, here is a good write-up.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...35237688745869
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post #4 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWRider View Post
Fortunately the parts aren't vey expensive and if you're mechanically inclined, the job is not very difficult. If you choose to do it yourself, here is a good write-up.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...35237688745869
Dead link...interesting in the info if you can find it and repost? Thanks!
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post #5 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 05:21 AM
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I think this might be what he was trying to link, we'll see if it works this time:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...ockers_pdf.pdf
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post #6 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:00 AM
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upgrade time!
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post #7 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 08:03 AM
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I think this might be what he was trying to link, we'll see if it works this time:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...ockers_pdf.pdf
Yes, that was the link. Funny, my link worked last night when I tested it but not now. Thanks for the corrected link.
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post #8 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PNWRider View Post
Fortunately the parts aren't vey expensive and if you're mechanically inclined, the job is not very difficult. If you choose to do it yourself, here is a good write-up.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...35237688745869
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Originally Posted by Parko View Post
I think this might be what he was trying to link, we'll see if it works this time:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/10...ockers_pdf.pdf
Thanks guys, that link is very helpful. I was going to use the Toyota manual but this is better. I will be doing the job myself.
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post #9 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Dang, that's not cool. I had a different cam failure mode and have new intake and exhaust cam. I have x thousand miles and I guess I need to take a look soon. It's always a hassle for me because I have to remove intercooler et al. I guess it's one situation where you want to know before you find out...


Seems even if you do everything right with when you get on it, and everything else you can get unlucky multiple times on that intake cam!
If you want, you can bring your car by and I can help you out. The intercooler doesnt really add too much more time to the job.

After doing my own research, I am pretty confident this is a lubrication issue. The dual oil coolers in the 2005s over cool the oil (I think even a single cooler is too much on the street), the "thermostat" in the sandwhich plate allows too much cold oil through, Lotus spec'd in heavier oil than Toyota (5w-40 vs 5w-30), and I dont think even "good" synthetic oils you get at the auto parts store are as good as something like Motul. Celicas do not seem to have this problem and I think the oil weight and temp are the biggest differences.

The big cam is on a slider rather than a roller so the lubrication demands are higher. I think a cold standard oil is just not up to the task. I am putting an oil temp gauge in to test my theory, I want to see how cold the oil really is. Then I am going to disconnect both oil coolers and see how hot she gets.
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post #10 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 06:39 PM
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[QUOTE=111Joe;5270641] I am putting an oil temp gauge in to test my theory, I want to see how cold the oil really is.

I am constantly worried about this on my car. I have had one set of wiped cams already at 18K miles. My car has close to 50K right now.

I have not checked it recently.

I can tell you that I do have a temp gauge. With one or two coolers blocked with rags stuffed in the grills, I still cannot get any decent oil temperature. My gauge barely moves off 150. I will check my cams this spring to see how they are.

I definitely think this is a oil temp issue.

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post #11 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:04 PM
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@111Joe Low oil temp is only a contributing factor to this premature wear. The #1 factor is tight valve lash settings from Lotus, which was shown on this forum years ago.

Raising the oil temp is just better overall for your motor, but it won't prevent cam wear if you don't fix the tight valve lash.
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post #12 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:10 PM
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@111Joe Low oil temp is only a contributing factor to this premature wear. The #1 factor is tight valve lash settings from Lotus, which was shown on this forum years ago.

Raising the oil temp is just better overall for your motor, but it won't prevent cam wear if you don't fix the tight valve lash.
With all due respect I don't think there is a definitive explanation of why some cams are wiped.

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post #13 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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@111Joe Low oil temp is only a contributing factor to this premature wear. The #1 factor is tight valve lash settings from Lotus, which was shown on this forum years ago.

Raising the oil temp is just better overall for your motor, but it won't prevent cam wear if you don't fix the tight valve lash.
I agree that too tight of clearance can contribute to this.

I understand Lotus may recommend a tighter spec than Toyota, but is there any evidence that these engines were either built for Lotus with this tighter spec or Lotus set them up before putting them into their cars? Both of these scenarios seems likely.
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post #14 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:12 PM
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Wiped Cam :(

Here in europe we heve lot of corollas and celicas with 2zzge, many of them with wiped intake cams. I don't think there is temp oil or valve lash setting is an issue, just crap material used to make this cams. Aftermarket cams don't have this problem...
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post #15 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-29-2017, 10:39 PM
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Here in europe we heve lot of corollas and celicas with 2zzge, many of them with wiped intake cams. I don't think there is temp oil or valve lash setting is an issue, just crap material used to make this cams. Aftermarket cams don't have this problem...
Interesting.

I will have to say I haven't seen this opinion before.

San
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post #16 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Kubek_KSJZ View Post
Here in europe we heve lot of corollas and celicas with 2zzge, many of them with wiped intake cams. I don't think there is temp oil or valve lash setting is an issue, just crap material used to make this cams. Aftermarket cams don't have this problem...
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Interesting.

I will have to say I haven't seen this opinion before.

San
Yeah, the common knowledge seems to have been than the Toyota applications didn't have the problem; at least judging from the posts on here. If that's false, then materials makes a lot of sense. All three factors coming together at once (lash, temp, and material) could mean that any one problem in isolation wouldn't be bad enough, but all three together is too much.
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post #17 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 06:57 AM
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I haven't raced my lotus in any auto X's yet. But I am worried about oil temp. I can't even get it high enough on the street if the outside temp is low or I don't have any stop and go. Mine is an late 05 with one oil cooler. How do you guys keep the temps up during runs?
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post #18 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:21 AM
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Has anyone ever run on the track with no oil coolers and recorded the oil temperatures? I know there are other options but full removal would be the simplest.
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post #19 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 09:40 AM
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I visited the Celica forum years back and never saw premature cam wear reported like we see. High mileage wear is one thing, but our forum has numerous worn cams at 20,000 miles or less which is unacceptable. The number of owners who still haven't had their cams inspected is even scarier.

Lotus didn't use bespoke 2zz's. They took the 2zz, flattened its torque curve, raised the rev limit and fitted oil cooler(s). Lotus R&D said most of the torque and RPM gains were achieved via ECU mapping.

However, what's to say Lotus R&D didn't also shrink the valve lash to yield more aggressive valve openings (larger effective cam profiles) which thereby flatten the torque curve and boost HP a bit at higher RPMs? Such a feat would easily be in their capacity and explain the early cam wear we see.

@Ob917 the most affordable option is to block off the oil cooler fins with tape. @TedR DarkSol removed his oil coolers outright to shed even more weight, but I don't know if he ever raced with that config.
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post #20 of 119 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 11:02 AM
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Interesting.

I will have to say I haven't seen this opinion before.

San
I have read that on LT somewhere. My notes are here:
2005 Lotus Elise, 1.8L - Camshaft Inspection

I recall that someone suggested that the 500 rpm higher redline may be why the Toyota cars fail *less*, but still fail.
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