87 Octane fuel - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-02-2005, 04:49 PM
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>>>Does the manual specifically state that the warranty can be voided by switching to traditional 'green' coolant, such as Prestone or Peak? These companies do state that their products will not void manufacturer's warantees.<<<

What does the Car Doctor say about changing over during the warranty period?

IIRC he suggests leaving it in...or at least one of the radio gurus does. And that is for GM vehicles using motors known to have cooling issues
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post #22 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-02-2005, 05:16 PM
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My understanding is that the ECU will attempt to adjust for the difference in octane.

From another perspective, the cost difference between 87 to 91 is about 20 cents per gallon. That translates to a maxium difference is $2.00 per tank.

If I were filling up a gas guzzling SUV pig with a 30 gallon gas tank, then I'd be tempted to run 87. But for a low volume, moderately powered, $50K sports car, $2.00 per tank doesn't seem worth the decreased performance (regardless of how slight) or potential mechanical and warranty issues.
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post #23 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-02-2005, 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Stan
>>>Does the manual specifically state that the warranty can be voided by switching to traditional 'green' coolant, such as Prestone or Peak? These companies do state that their products will not void manufacturer's warantees.<<<

What does the Car Doctor say about changing over during the warranty period?

IIRC he suggests leaving it in...or at least one of the radio gurus does. And that is for GM vehicles using motors known to have cooling issues
He doesn't believe that switching to the green coolant should be something that voids a warranty but realizes that these large companies can, through the size of their financial power, force the consumer to try and stop them from issuing such an edict, realizing the time and money factors that face them in their attempts to vacate the order. While the class actions go forth, hopefully resulting in a favorable decision for the consumers bringing the action, The Car Doctor is not going to insinuate that he is able to guarantee the results of the court. We are still talking about a David vs Goliath action here and it wouldn't be the first time that a case of this type spends years in reaching a final determination. Personally, he has said that switching to the 'green' coolant will be done in his vehicle, but that those wishing to wait for a legal determination before removing the coolant during the warranty period, should monitor the acidity regularly and change the radiator cap yearly. If crud begins to appear, or if the acidity strips warn of danger, a personal decision will have to be made by the owner as to how he/she proceeds.
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post #24 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-02-2005, 05:31 PM
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Well whatever you do...be careful and know that there is not a perfect coolant. If you keep your cooling system topped up and maintained you should have no problems. If you read about the GM coolant matter, there are lots of cloudy issues such as 10 year old cars on their fourth owner running into issues. Havoline coolant is fine if maintained it appears. You can see studies from GM showing their research into the matter. Lack of maintenance, 10 year old cars that have never had the coolant tank cap off, coolant with lots of aftermarket glop added etc.

Here's a comment from another expert about using green stuff in Japanese motors. He seems to contradict the Car Doctor's advice.

"Japanese manufacturers typically recommend no silicate antifreeze. Apparently, as the story goes, the silicate can wear the seals and cause leaks in the WP. Maybe they just make lousy seals, I dunno.

Prestone green is *high* silicate. It is the *opposite* of what you should put in a Japanese car. Prestone introduced their high silicate blend in the 70's as a cure for corrosion problems. More silicates, less corrosion. I would not use Prestone in Jap car."

There are at least 5-6 main types of coolant out there. Some are like Havoline but with extra additives. Not sure if all the green stuff coolants have the high silicates the expert warned Japanese motors dislike.

I wouldn't rush into any changeovers. Cars tend to run best on their original factory fill type of fluid. If you change to another kind you most likely cannot get the long life advantages if you read the fine print.

If you are stressing about the Havoline coolant, why not change it out every couple years and throw in a new coolant tank cap? If this is done the bleeding is very important as Havoline coolant hates trapped air, so bleed the system properly.

Corrosion debris tends to float to the top of the Havoline stuff. It tends to sink to the bottom with the green stuff. If your coolant tank looks clean and the fluid has the bright color and the cap, temps & fluid level look good then I think you are fine. It would be a good idea to glance at the tank from time to time. More often than every 10 years!

Last edited by Stan; 01-02-2005 at 05:47 PM.
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post #25 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-04-2005, 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by Ground Loop
Post some details on them service manuals.. what did they set you back?

I've heard that there is a smorgasbord of manuals to choose from, and you have to pick the ones that are useful to you. Is there a "Complete Set" affordable by mortals?

What format did the manuals come in? 3-hole punch, bound, or PDF?

I normally buy the whole set of manuals, but they've gotten so freekin expensive I might buy them as I go.
I didn't get a chance to post this yesterday.
The manuals are 4 punch hole A4 paper of course but they come with a nice Elise binder.
After a little investigation, the proper method to obtain the manual (Service notes) is to buy it through your dealership. Mine cost $226.76 before tax. The manual is : Elise 111R Service Notes Manual A120T0327J
I actually emailed Hethel and got a response from Mr. Massey! (He is the Senior Technical Author for Lotus), he told me to contact LCUSA and they in turn said order it through the dealership.
This manual covers the Elise 111R, Elise North America and the S2 Exige, i.e. all the Toyota powered models. This manual provides space for the engine and transmission sections but they ARE NOT included, they cost more.
Anyway if you order this document it will come with 4 update packages:
and ..../04/04
Make sure you put them in in this order (don't ask)
These are the best place to start I think. You can buy the other additions if you want. The only problem is that I think they will send you updates but you need to know when they are available
Anyway, having a good dealership relationship helps as they can give you a call when they get an update.
It is pretty obvious from the updates that the original version did not have that much content but each update adds more contents to the numerous sections.

BTW Each update contains the following passage from the Author:
"In the interests of both Lotus Cars and the dealer network, please take all reasonable precautions to protect Lotus copyright and discourage illegal copying and electronic conversion."
I hope everyone here will respect their IP, I know I will. I think the cost is fairly reasonable given the amount of work that is involved in producing it and the content makes for very interesting reading. Yes there are fairly large sections of text explaining design and function in various sections.

Sorry Ridge, I didn't check for coolant info last night. I'll try an ddo that tonight if someone hasn't responded by then.


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