Exotic Car Owner's Code of Conduct - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 04:43 AM
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By every definition the Elise and Exige are exotic cars, calling a car "exotic" is often confused by non car people with the term "super car". A super car is very expensive, $100,000 + , has a huge engine, and does 200 + Mph. An exotic car is rare, hand made, purpose built, unusual, limited production. Pretty much every super car is also and exotic car. Not every exotic car is a super car.

Exotic Cars 101: What is an 'Exotic Car' (by definition)? - National Exotic Car | Examiner.com

So a lot of non sports cars are actually exotic, like Masserati , Aston Martin Grand tourers. And a lot of sports cars like the common Porsches and BMWs on the other hand are not really very exotic just by their sheer numbers in the States. I see maybe 30 Porsches on my drive to and from work in LA, I might see an Elise or Exige once a month sometimes longer, I actually see more Ferraris and Lambos than Lotus by far.
I don't think a link to some arbitrary description of what makes an exotic car settles the issue. I don't think anything does. I've owned 9 Lotus, including 5 elise/exige, and my own opinion is that they are quite unique and very much a niche vehicle (same could be said of the Saab Sonnet it it's day), but not exotic.

I can't bring myself to consider a car exotic that has 35 or more listings on ebay at any given time that can be bought for under $35K in most instances, under $30K in many instances. It's not made of exotic materials, it does not contain exotic technology. Unless you consider extruded aluminum and heat-cured glue exotic...in both cases now being used more and more in 'non exotic' cars. The engine was used in the Pontiac Vibe, among other pedestrian vehicles. It certainly has an 'exotic' shape, so maybe THAT'S the criteria. Along with the Enzo conversion body kit for the Fiero or the old Ferrari 250GTO body kit for the also old Datsun/Nissan 240/260Z's. Which actually was quite nice.

If rarity determines exotic, a Ford Pinto is exotic now. When was the last time you saw one on the road?

A German acquaintance visited our family years ago. He was truly dumbfounded by the number of Corvettes he saw on the road. It was his dream car, he'd never seen one in person. Where he was from, the Corvette was rare and exotic.

It's all relative. Even rarity is relative. Because right now the price of low mileage ones have brought them into the range where just about anyone who actually wants to own one can, and the supply is such that anyone who wants one and can afford one (and that now includes Joe Six Pack) can have one, with little wait.

The Elise and Exige are most certainly different from what most people see, they inspire curiosity and questions from folks, so is that the criteria? If you want it to be, it's ok, because I don't think the Institute for Exotic Cars has published its official list yet, so anything goes.

Last edited by 4380r; 09-27-2010 at 05:47 AM.
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post #22 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 06:12 AM
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... People do assume "exotic" means super car when it really doesnt.

Ehhh, disagree.

Perception is reality, no? As Chrissy said on the Sopranos... "I gotta live in the real world."

Maybe I'm outta touch with what 9 year old boys have posters of up on their walls these days, maybe I test too many unobtainium type cars, but I don't personally feel the Elise / Exige is Exotic. That's just me though, it is all relative. I love mine.

Is a $25k 308 Ferrari truly an exotic? I know the TCO / maintenance certainly will be.

If a vehicle is worth the same as a new Civic / Corolla can it be truly considered exotic?

Is a kit car exotic?

I think arguing what "people think" / what popular opinion is may be folly. It smacks of jumping up and down saying "You're all wrong, you're all wrong!You don't understand... MY car IS exotic!"

In my not so humble opinion the Elise / Exige is exotic-esque as it has some qualities of an exoticar, but I can't get behind the full fledged "exotic" descriptor.

My $0.02

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post #23 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 07:17 AM
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Ehhh, disagree.

Perception is reality, no? As Chrissy said on the Sopranos... "I gotta live in the real world."

Maybe I'm outta touch with what 9 year old boys have posters of up on their walls these days, maybe I test too many unobtainium type cars, but I don't personally feel the Elise / Exige is Exotic. That's just me though, it is all relative. I love mine.

Is a $25k 308 Ferrari truly an exotic? I know the TCO / maintenance certainly will be.

If a vehicle is worth the same as a new Civic / Corolla can it be truly considered exotic?

Is a kit car exotic?

I think arguing what "people think" / what popular opinion is may be folly. It smacks of jumping up and down saying "You're all wrong, you're all wrong!You don't understand... MY car IS exotic!"

In my not so humble opinion the Elise / Exige is exotic-esque as it has some qualities of an exoticar, but I can't get behind the full fledged "exotic" descriptor.

My $0.02
Some good points there, Frank. Although I'd disagree on Dollar-value being a criteria. Maybe exotic isnt the right word. I dunno what is. Sure, someone could have had a V6 Accord for what I paid for my Esprit but they are about as different as you can possibly get.

To me, the biggest "factors" are rarity and the cars overall personality. Exotics have strange behavior. They require more muss and fuss than any Honda ever could. Most importantly though - it takes a pretty big set of balls to buy an exotic car. Maybe Im weird but I LOVE my Esprit's quirkiness and strangeties. I love the heavy steering, the 5 minute fuel injection warm up procedure, the lumpy/choppy idle. I love the way the bonnett opens, the sloppy shifter, the wrinkled leather(sooo 80's! ). These are all things that most people will NOT put up with. They simply buy one of those "safe" choices with 100K mile service intervals. So be it.

I guess I cant really define "exotic". A lot of what you say does make sense and many cars do have some exotic attributes but then they dont meet other required attributes. Cost is not one of them though, IMO. Super High-cost cars are simply unobtainable, high cost cars or maybe Mega-exotics, I suppopse.

As for the Ferrari 308? I suppose you could argue its exoticness all day but $25K has NEVER looked or sounded so good. And, to buy one of those takes guts which is something not everyone has.

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post #24 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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To me, the biggest "factors" are rarity and the cars overall personality. Exotics have strange behavior. They require more muss and fuss than any Honda ever could. Most importantly though - it takes a pretty big set of balls to buy an exotic car. Maybe Im weird but I LOVE my Esprit's quirkiness and strangeties. I love the heavy steering, the 5 minute fuel injection warm up procedure, the lumpy/choppy idle. I love the way the bonnett opens, the sloppy shifter, the wrinkled leather(sooo 80's! ). These are all things that most people will NOT put up with. They simply buy one of those "safe" choices with 100K mile service intervals. So be it.
Sounds like the aforementioned Saab Sonnett would indeed be an exotic, then.
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post #25 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 08:26 AM
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Some good points there, Frank.
Yeah, but....

"Exotic" is in the eye of the beholder. If the general public sees the car as an "exotic," then it is. We certainly shouldn't be trying to convince others that it is/isn't an exotic car. They'll have made up their own minds.

We also shouldn't have to be convincing ourselves whether they're exotic cars. Some of us think they are, some of us don't.

Regardless, the code of conduct is becoming to all of us. Since most of the public is already conditioned to think of extremely rare, unusual, apparently expensive, exclusive cars such as ours as "exotic," we should all still be good ambassadors for the breed, no matter whether we think they're "exotic" or not.

And if Frank wants to go with Chrissy on the Sopranos and "live in the real world," he should give up his "exotic" job and go to work in the engineering booth.

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post #26 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 02:06 PM
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Why would cost or value ,either new or original, have any bearing on a car being exotic ?
A lot of the super rare old exotics Jay Leno drives were originally only a couple of grand. I bought my 66 GTO for $5k back before the super car craze. Now it is valued at around $39K so is it now suddenly exotic ? I don't consider it exotic because it was mass produced on a production line, looks pretty much like most 60s cars of the era, but they are rare. Sure if I took it over to Germany it would be exotic in the same sense that exotic fruit is exotic to places it does not grow. But it still would not be an exotic by car standards really.

Pintos are rare now, but not too special, When people get in this debate the non-exotic people tend to selectively leave out what makes something exotic. The Pintos are only now currently rare by attrition, but a hell of a lot of Pintos were cranked off the lines. Nothing else about them are really exotic

_ Hand made
- Limited production
- special purpose
- Unique styling
- Charming quirkyness
- Strong performance figures

Is the Ariel Atom exotic ? If you say yes then why not a Lotus ? It is pretty much an Atom type car with clothes on

If you get a chance to visit the Lotus factory your mind will probably change about the car being exotic. What current normal cars have all bonded extruded aluminum chassis and fibre reinforced plastic bodies ?
(It is not normal fiberglass fyi )

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post #27 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 02:24 PM
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I wonder if dancers and pets argue with each other about whether or not they qualify as "exotic".
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post #28 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 02:25 PM
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Oh, and I hereby pledge to do my best to honor the exotic car owner's credo.
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post #29 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 02:28 PM
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Sounds like the aforementioned Saab Sonnett would indeed be an exotic, then.
Dunno what do you think ? (see attached picture ) I think some models qualify actually

Also the pinto in the link below might be considered exotic by all the guidelines, hand build
car and driver rally car

http://www.ridelust.com/racing-histo...72-ford-pinto/

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post #30 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-27-2010, 11:24 PM
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nice list.





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post #31 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 04:34 AM
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Sounds like the aforementioned Saab Sonnett would indeed be an exotic, then.
Well, it certainly has some of the attributes, doesnt it? Being a Saab probably hurts a little. Maybe badge is a major criteria then. When most people think Exotic cars I think the first two names that pop into their minds is Lambo & Ferrari with Lotus also being a secondary choice they'd consider.

Oh well - lets just use this code of conduct as a guideline either way. Exotic, Shmexotic...it doesnt matter anyways.

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post #32 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by delise View Post
Why would cost or value ,either new or original, have any bearing on a car being exotic ?
A lot of the super rare old exotics Jay Leno drives were originally only a couple of grand. I bought my 66 GTO for $5k back before the super car craze. Now it is valued at around $39K so is it now suddenly exotic ? I don't consider it exotic because it was mass produced on a production line, looks pretty much like most 60s cars of the era, but they are rare. Sure if I took it over to Germany it would be exotic in the same sense that exotic fruit is exotic to places it does not grow. But it still would not be an exotic by car standards really.

Pintos are rare now, but not too special, When people get in this debate the non-exotic people tend to selectively leave out what makes something exotic. The Pintos are only now currently rare by attrition, but a hell of a lot of Pintos were cranked off the lines. Nothing else about them are really exotic

_ Hand made
- Limited production
- special purpose
- Unique styling
- Charming quirkyness
- Strong performance figures

Is the Ariel Atom exotic ? If you say yes then why not a Lotus ? It is pretty much an Atom type car with clothes on

If you get a chance to visit the Lotus factory your mind will probably change about the car being exotic. What current normal cars have all bonded extruded aluminum chassis and fibre reinforced plastic bodies ?
(It is not normal fiberglass fyi )
Pick your poison. YOU chose rarity as your primary argument for what constitutes exotic.

No, the Atom is not exotic. It is a big kit car go cart. Probably a blast to drvie, but not exotic.

While I've not visited the Lotus factory, I do have a video that shows step by step how the car is built. Not impressed, at least not in terms of classifying the car as exotic.

In your check list, you left off something (on purpose?) that most attempts to describe an exotic car include: availability/exclusivity. That is where the numbers (in relationship to demand) and low cost come in. Today, ANYBODY who wants an Elise who is gainfully employed and can qualify for a car loan can own one. Anyone. No practical limits. Exotic? Is it an exotic if any kid with a minimum wage job, living at home with no expenses, can own one any time he or she wants?

FYI....the Pinto engine block is one of the more frequent engine installs in a Lotus 7 and even modding the Elan and Europa...

OK...

Hand made
Quirky
Low volume
Good performance
Special purpose
Unique styling....

Saab Sonnett exotic? Check.
How about a Locost 7? Check.
Myers Manx? Check.

Actually virtually all of your criteria applied to all Lotus before the Esprit, and the words 'exotic' and 'Lotus' almost never appeared in the same sentence or thought concerning Lotus' road cars up to that point in time. Even Chunky didn't think they were exotic, he saw the Esprit as an attempt to move in that direction.

I think most people get the point:

Folks definitively say that the Elise/Exige is exotic, and do a head bang emoticon when someone sees it differently. The fact is there truly is no real standard for what constitutes an exotic car beyond what one wants to believe is exotic.

Again, in England the Elise was never seen as an exotic, it's just another option in the sports car market, like a Miata, current MG (which used the same engine as the S1), S2000, Nissan Z car, etc.

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post #33 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:13 AM
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^^^ Well said.

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post #34 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso View Post
Ehhh, disagree.

Perception is reality, no? As Chrissy said on the Sopranos... "I gotta live in the real world."

Maybe I'm outta touch with what 9 year old boys have posters of up on their walls these days, maybe I test too many unobtainium type cars, but I don't personally feel the Elise / Exige is Exotic. That's just me though, it is all relative. I love mine.

Is a $25k 308 Ferrari truly an exotic? I know the TCO / maintenance certainly will be.

If a vehicle is worth the same as a new Civic / Corolla can it be truly considered exotic?

Is a kit car exotic?

I think arguing what "people think" / what popular opinion is may be folly. It smacks of jumping up and down saying "You're all wrong, you're all wrong!You don't understand... MY car IS exotic!"

In my not so humble opinion the Elise / Exige is exotic-esque as it has some qualities of an exoticar, but I can't get behind the full fledged "exotic" descriptor.

My $0.02
Very good description. There's no cut-and-dry definition of exotic, so perception is reality. Over 90% of the people I meet with my Lotus perceive it as exotic, therefore I consider it an exotic. Is it a $35k car used? Yes. Are Ferrari F355's $45k cars? Yes. However, the public and car enthusiasts would definitely consider it an exotic.

Would a $137k BMW 7-series or a $100K Nissan GT-R be considered exotic? No, even though they are extremely impressive cars. It's not all about money or performance figures.

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post #35 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 08:22 AM
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In your check list, you left off something (on purpose?) that most attempts to describe an exotic car include: availability/exclusivity. That is where the numbers (in relationship to demand) and low cost come in. Today, ANYBODY who wants an Elise who is gainfully employed and can qualify for a car loan can own one. Anyone. No practical limits. Exotic? Is it an exotic if any kid with a minimum wage job, living at home with no expenses, can own one any time he or she wants?
Ba-Da-Bing! Ba-Da-Boom! [You get blood all over your nice Ivy League suit!]

This is exactly why I feel Elise / Exige don't qualify as full fledged exotics. Yeah, an S260 is probably too much $$ for many, but even what I bought my '05 new old stock Elise for in '06 was pretty reasonable in the grand scheme of things. Reasonable does not equal exotic in my book. Sure, I coulda bought a used F355 for a similar amount (which most people don't realize), but I'm not willing to take the maintenance / repair nighmare.

Honestly, I love that Elise has a Toyota / Yamaha drivetrain (not that it is as bullet-proof as I would like). I wouldn't have purchased a Lotus otherwise though. Still, Toyota 2ZZ does not equal pedigreed powerplant (tho Yamaha dies earn some engineering props from those in the know).

The net / net is that there isn't a clear answer here (obviously. How many times has this been "discussed" here?), but I'm not looking for a destination as of yet as the interactive discourse / journey is more fun in this case. Keep the constructive conflict coming. Who knows, maybe one of you will come up with an answer and... women will flock to you in droves. Ha! That reminds me of a conversation I had at a track event at Spring Mountain in '06, a month after I got my Elise. Ex-Ferrari guy (then Radical guy) came up to me to talk about the Elise. He agreed it was a killer track tool, but added... "It won't get chicks to drop their panties like a Ferrari..." I agreed with him. Perhaps women / chicks are the best judge of what is an exoticar (and they have an innate / sixth sense when it comes to residual values and the personal balance sheet required to own exoticars. I'm just sayin'!)? Now if that doesn't re-stir the pot on this thread a little...

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post #36 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 09:08 AM
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Very good description. There's no cut-and-dry definition of exotic, so perception is reality. Over 90% of the people I meet with my Lotus perceive it as exotic, therefore I consider it an exotic. Is it a $35k car used? Yes. Are Ferrari F355's $45k cars? Yes. However, the public and car enthusiasts would definitely consider it an exotic.

Would a $137k BMW 7-series or a $100K Nissan GT-R be considered exotic? No, even though they are extremely impressive cars. It's not all about money or performance figures.
I agree. Especially that dollar value doesnt play into it nearly as much as people think. Lots of expensive cars are nowhere near exotic as you pointed out.

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post #37 of 177 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 10:28 AM
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I can't bring myself to consider a car exotic that has 35 or more listings on ebay at any given time that can be bought for under $35K in most instances, under $30K in many instances.

Right now there are more Gallardos, F430s, and Murcies on eBay than there are Elises -- and yes I mean more of each type, not combined. That kind of blows up the "availability" and "Limited Production" arguments for those cars. Yes, price matters too, but I see ten Lambos for every Lotus I see here in San Diego. By definition that makes the Lotus more exotic than the Lambo.
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post #38 of 177 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 07:39 AM
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I hardly have strong opinions on the subject but:

Exotic:
The car is strange and unusual which is the definition of exotic
Extruded and bonded aluminum space frame.
Generates down force from the factory without external spoilers.
Both elegant and exposed aluminum chassis
Sub 2000 pounds in a 2004 production roadster (+1G, <5s to 60, mid-engine)
Hand made, low-production vehicle
I'll add not available with an automatic transmission

If there's something exotic about an F360 (the F-car at the time Gen 2 Elise) that isn't about an Elise, what is it?

As far as price is concerned keep in mind what you don't get for that $50,000 that you do with other exotics. Do cushy leather seats and other junk really make a car more exotic?

I don't consider the Toyota drive train much of a factor since the motors in most high end cars aren't especially exotic either, just bigger.

I don't think kit cars should be included in the comparison. It's a production car not some kit car creation.

In any case, we all know it's subjective. Why does there need to be a debate about it in a thread about an Exotic Car Owners Code of Conduct? I don't think the OP said any Lotus was exotic and I don't think it matters. Personally, I'll wash my car when I feel like it.

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post #39 of 177 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 09:23 AM
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Don't think this really applies to Elise/Exige owners but ok.

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post #40 of 177 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 01:01 PM
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i always went by this when I did not own a exotic but same applys now

I don't like Mercedes!
I don't like Corvettes!
I don't like the"New"camaro!
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