Pedal adjustment for heel'n'toeing - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:08 AM Thread Starter
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Pedal adjustment for heel'n'toeing

I have 05 111R and the pedal positioning is crap.

My car is in the dealership now, where it is being fitted with some mods...

I told my dealer to adjust the pedals, but they say they dont know how to do it...

So, can anyone be so kind and post an instruction for the dealer, which i will translate and send to them?
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:14 AM
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Sector 111 offers an "HNT pad" that attaches to the brake pedal which brings it up to the same level as the throttle. I've had it on my car for a year and a half- works as advertised. I understand that the pedals also offer some degree of adjustability- do a search and I'm sure you will find a number of threads on it.

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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Val
I have 05 111R and the pedal positioning is crap. My car is in the dealership now, where it is being fitted with some mods...I told my dealer to adjust the pedals, but they say they dont know how to do it...So, can anyone be so kind and post an instruction for the dealer, which i will translate and send to them?
* Search a bit and print out some posts from this site. There are more than are listed below.

* Two of the mods are right in the Lotus Service manual, which they should have regardless: See page 19 of the "Braking System" which is unit JJ of the manual.

* From the manual section JJ: "Adjustment Throttle cable:
- The pedal is pulled against a rubber buffer on a steel upstop bracket by an extension spring.
- Adjust the cable outer length at the engine end abutment bracket to allow 2 - 3mm of pedal movement
before the throttle is actuated.
- Set the downstop in the pedal footpad such that vigorous full depression of the pedal achieves full
opening of the throttle butterfly without allowing the cable to be strained.
- An alternative pedal position which may be preferred for 'heel and toeing' may be achieved by replacing
the rubber upstop buffer with a M5x15 hex. head setscrew, with three flat washers beneath the head for a
total thickness of around 7mm. The cable must then be re-adjusted at the engine abutment as above.
The footpad downstop bolt should then be replaced by an M8x20 setscrew and reset as above.
Brake pedal:
- The pedal is pulled 'off' by an extension spring anchored to a bracket rivetted to the scuttle beam.
- There is normally a gap of approximately 3mm between the brake pedal and the pedal box upstop flange
with the pedal released. If preferred, the brake pedal can be raised slightly by adjusting the effective
length of the pushrod at its connection to the clevis, but the master cylinder must never be preloaded
, i.e.
there must always be a small clearance between the pedal and upstop bracket to ensure that the master
cylinder piston is allowed fully to return and open the reservoir port.
- After any adjustment, tighten the clevis locknut and check operation of the brake light switch.
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot Stan! Thats the bit i found myself, but the adjustments are tiny and require some additional parts...

It also seems to be impossible to get rid of dead travel.

I guess hnt pad is the best option after all...

Last edited by Val; 05-01-2006 at 05:33 AM.
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Val
Thanks a lot Stan! Thats the bit i found myself, but the adjustments are tiny and require some additional parts... It also seems to be impossible to get rid of dead travel. I guess hnt pad is the best option after all...
The "extra parts" are two normal, readily available anywhere bolts and some washers more or less. This is for the gas pedal adjustment and is from Lotus's suggestions in the Service Manual.



I suggest adjusting the brake pedal because this also reduces travel and squishiness characteristics in addition to changing the height. You want to wind up with a useful height relationship between the brake and gas pedal when you are braking. If you do all the adjustments that have been discussed the amount of slop becomes greatly reduced and comparable to other servo assisted cars. And once the slop is gone through, the pedal is firmer in feel and action.

Rest assured that you can greatly enhance this aspect of the car however you wind up doing it.

Last edited by Stan; 05-01-2006 at 05:49 AM.
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
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Ah, i see
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 05:51 AM
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Stan-
I have the service manuals, but seeing your pictures of the bits made it come alive. Thank you very much.
Val -- 'ppreciate you asking the question -- It helped me, too, even though I had the manuals and all.

John

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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 06:06 AM
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Thanks guys, glad I could help.

Here is a view of my pedals after the adjustments I made to them. It's a bit hard to judge depth there but the brake pedal is higher than as-delivered, and higher than the gas pedal. When applied, the brake pedal remains usefully above the gas pedal, big guys can fit better (I'm fine either way at 5' 10") and (to me) modulation seems easier as the while braking brake pedal travel range is smaller. When you reset the pedal height via the linkage this affects things besides pedal height.



You can see the down stop bolt with the rubber tip placed on it at the bottom rear of the gas pedal, this is the large diameter bolt from the other pic above:



Some move their OE brake pedal pad back or forth...you can move it closer to the gas pedal if desired. It is delivered riveted on but that is easy to snip off and then you can use a sheet metal screw to replace the rivet. It stays in place just fine, is not Lotus endorsed, and takes just a minute to reset. I have 9 1/2 size feet and with driving shoes moving the brake pedal pad towards the gas pedal can help me out. Although stock is useable, it's a matter of fine tuning here. If a big guy drives my car, the pad would need to be placed back in the stock position.






Last edited by Stan; 05-01-2006 at 06:10 AM.
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 06:21 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, those pics are really nice! Very helpful
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 06:26 AM
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With the brake pedal in the full right position (closest to the accelerator) I ran out of room between the brake and center chasis support for all but the narrowest of shoes. To push things back to the left I installed the Ultimate Pedals accelerator extension. Now I can keep the brake and accelerator really close and have a normal width shoe on.

Top is without sector111 HNT pad, bottom is with HNT pad




And here's the Ulitimate Pedals accelerator extender
on the stock pedal out of the car




I also lowered the accelerator using the Lotus method with Stan's helpful posts but still didn't get things just right. I'm happy with the setup as it is now, I just wish it didn't need all the add on crap, kind of ruins the beautiful pedal design.

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Last edited by pixlpush; 05-02-2006 at 07:58 PM.
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixlpush
With the brake pedal in the full right position (closest to the accelerator) I ran out of room between the brake and center chasis support for all but the narrowest of shoes.
Or you can just redrill the holes in the brake pedal pad...the picture shows the 3 holes it comes with stock. Finer gradations are possible.

Some people also try placing a rectangular piece of aluminum under the gas pedal pad to widen it toward the brake pedal.

Matt Becker, the Lotus factory test driver, just rolls his foot as needed off the brake pedal and cracks off perfect downshift after perfect downshift like a machine gun. Great driver!
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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pixlpush

I have the same setup on my car, still when I brake hard the brake pedal is a little past the gas, I need to raise the brake pedal with the stan mod, you would think lotus of all manufactures would deliver the car with the pedals adjusted correctly. It caused me to spin this weekend at homestead on a poor rev matched downshift. No off track excursion but traffic was heading my way.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchT
pixlpush
you would think lotus of all manufactures would deliver the car with the pedals adjusted correctly.
I hear you. I think I've spent too much time adjusting the pedals at this point and not enough time driving with them. I'm goint to stop mucking about with all the adjustments and just learn them as they are now. As others have pointed out it's not impossible to heel and toe with the stock setup plenty of people seem to do it well, but I'd hardly say it's an ideal setup. Then again I''ve never owned a car that has so many adjustments available for adjusting the pedals, and I was able to heel and toe in my Miata all day long.

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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 10:51 AM
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I used an aftermarket accelerator extender from Sparco (very similar to Ultimate Pedals) and adjusted both the brake and accelerator pedals as suggested by Lotus (and Stan). Found I was able to configure things EXACTLY as I wanted for HNT. Why Lotus didn't set up the '05 pedals properly at the factory is a mystery; simple brain-fart, I suspect, as both the Service Manual and the '06 layout clearly acknowledge the deficiency. Still, it's a simple and inexpensive fix and obviates the need for an added brake pedal pad (@ $125) which places the clutch and brake pedals at different heights.

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 11:01 AM
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Stan - THANKS so much for your earlier recommendations on pedal adjustments. I did the gas pedal this weekend and it made a big difference in my ability to HT (actually, I use the side of my foot, so it's more of a roll).

In looking at the brake pedal, mine has ONLY a rivet, with no set screw of any type. I didn't try to adjust the brake as I wanted to change one thing at a time, but if I do want to move it laterally, where did you put the screw (or did your's have a screw plus the rivet?)

When I replaced the accelerator upstop rubber grommet with a M5x15 bolt plus 3 washers, the bolt is VERY loose - it needs a nut to really hold it in place. The hole in the black metal plate which holds the bolt (and used to hold the rubber grommet) does not appear to be threaded, or if it is, it is too large for the M5 bolt. I put a nut to hold it in place, but I wanted to post my finding here for others to learn from.

My car's build date is May 05.

-R Warden

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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 12:13 PM
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Can ayone else with an '06 chime in here about their perfs on the pedal heights/ I am finding the opposite problem where the brake pedal is too high, so that under full threshold I can barely blip the gas pedal. Twisting my foot almost 45degrees lets me blip a little better, but I have to completely raise my whole leg off the floor to do it and lose some control of the break modulation when doing so. Gonna see if I can adjust the brake pedal...
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwarden
In looking at the brake pedal, mine has ONLY a rivet, with no set screw of any type.
You remove the rivet, move the pedal, and either re-rivet or use a bolt/screw to hold it in position.

Quote:
When I replaced the accelerator upstop rubber grommet with a M5x15 bolt plus 3 washers, the bolt is VERY loose - it needs a nut to really hold it in place.
Yes, the bracket is not threaded. You should place a nut on the "backside" of the bracket and tighten - the bracket should then be sandwiched between the bolt head & washers and the nut, holding it in place.




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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-01-2006, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwarden
Stan - THANKS so much for your earlier recommendations on pedal adjustments. I did the gas pedal this weekend and it made a big difference in my ability to HT (actually, I use the side of my foot, so it's more of a roll). In looking at the brake pedal, mine has ONLY a rivet, with no set screw of any type. I didn't try to adjust the brake as I wanted to change one thing at a time, but if I do want to move it laterally, where did you put the screw (or did your's have a screw plus the rivet?) When I replaced the accelerator upstop rubber grommet with a M5x15 bolt plus 3 washers, the bolt is VERY loose - it needs a nut to really hold it in place. The hole in the black metal plate which holds the bolt (and used to hold the rubber grommet) does not appear to be threaded, or if it is, it is too large for the M5 bolt. I put a nut to hold it in place, but I wanted to post my finding here for others to learn from. My car's build date is May 05. -R Warden
Thanks for the kind words. All the 05s come with a rivet. I bought a sheet metal screw for like a nickel and just screwed it into the same hole, works great. You can see a picture of it in post #8 above.

Yes you use a nut on the bolt! Make sure you get the throttle cable well adjusted, you don't want it under tension when you have the thing floored.

I have a suspicion that some of the 2005 cars that have had an idle problem actually just broke in their throttle cable. They stretch a bit with use and then stabilize. You need the stop on the throttle body properly set to get a proper idle out of the car and avoid the blip and then stall scenario. So it's a good idea to set this when you are doing this mod. The stop needs to be the stop and not the cable.

Last edited by Stan; 05-01-2006 at 01:00 PM.
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-02-2006, 11:37 AM
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This thread reminded me that I wanted to give this a shot. I really want to firm up the initial brake pedal travel. Unfortunately, I think I might be too big to get in there (6' 3" and about 220lbs). I tried from both sides, but was afraid I might get stuck or have serious trouble getting out. If I had someone who lived with me to help me get out I might be more adventurous. To me, I seemed to have a better angle at it from the driver's side. Any suggestions?

Last edited by Icedog_16; 05-02-2006 at 11:41 AM.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-02-2006, 11:43 AM
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Adjusted my throttle cable and throttle pedal last night not too bad, but when down there I notice my clutch return spring was broken, glad it was not the gas or brake spring, ran the car at homestead last weekend with the spring broken, these cars need to be checked before each track session.

Stan I used a sheet metal screw on my brake pedal too, good solution, a nut and bolt is very difficult to get in there.
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