Wek120's 2gr elige build thread - Page 8 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 24Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #141 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 12:29 PM
because racecar
 
dallasreed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Indy
Posts: 540
None of that sounds bad. I might try putting a different thermostat in before swapping the radiator if you want lower temperatures, you can also wire the fans such that they are on with ignition if you so desired.

2005 Lotus Elise turbo k20a2 757whp 536wtq 31psi [email protected]
2005 Lotus Elise 2zz supercharged 'streetable' race car
2007 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder
2010 Ford F350
2004 Mazda RX8
2007 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3
2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid
I passed my license test in a 3cyl 70hp Geo Metro
I learned to drive a manual on a Lotus Elise
dallasreed is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #142 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 01:58 PM
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 6,296
you could use a PDM with both a 12+ and a ground trigger for on. tap in a one wire temperature switch at 180 or so and use that as your "ground on". Then Tee off the AC request or AC clutch wire for the "12+ on" trigger. Fans then remain on unless 180 -and/or- (note that it's and as well or statement) AC request is active... Clean and not a lot a of wires. You can program in delay off, delay on, etc, etc... pretty slick. $150 PDM and a couple dollar temperature switch...

another 2 cents.

-Phil


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

____________________________________________

www.boefab.com: We Build Champions | Products-Service-Advice


BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Pain makes man Think. Thinking makes man Wise. Wisdom makes tracking a Lotus Endurable
turbophil is offline  
post #143 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
Yeah thats actually the way I have it wired. It 205 and climbing even with the fan on, which makes me think that it needs more cooling power. lower thermostat would make it kick in earlier but I dont know if it would increase the cooling capacity when actually at the fully open temperature… or would it?
wek120 is offline  
 
post #144 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-30-2016, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
3 weeks driving impression:

- Ive noticed that the gear ratios are way too high. At 75mph, Im sitting at over 3k just cruising on the highway. 1st is so low it's almost pointless. It looks like MWR sells a lower final drive gear, but that'll take splitting the trans. Definitely going to have to do this... first is just too low...

-Shifting (unless Im rev matching) is NOT easy for 1st 2nd 3rd and somewhat 5th and reverse. 3rd is by far the worst and almost completely locks me out under any kind of RPM over 3k unless I double clutch or rev match. Im not entirely sure what to do about this (open to all suggestions!!)

-Temps are running (without AC, and with fans at full) from 190-195. With the AC on, fans at full, and at moving along (not in traffic) it goes over 205-210 and I shut it off to prevent it from going higher. This is all just easy cruising too. ....I guess I need a bigger radiator. Going to try water wetter in the meantime. Id like to add a precooler mini radiator or a radiator booster pump, but Im not exactly sure how to hook it up (wouldn't it burn up the pump if the thermostat is closed??)

-The Koso dash... If I could do it over again Id get the AIM. The Koso is difficult to navigate the menu options, is WAY too bright at night even on the darkest setting, and the gps speedometer not working... lets just say Ill be writing a review on that and Koso's extremely rude customer service.

- The new seats are noticeably higher, my head hits the roof now >.<

Any experts on coolant booster pumps?

Formerly Wes (RIP : ( ) -- Now Brendon

Last edited by wek120; 06-30-2016 at 09:19 AM.
wek120 is offline  
post #145 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 04:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
The stock radiator can shed enough heat for 260 or more horsepower. Just rolling around you are creating 20, 30 horsepower. If it is getting hot it is not the radiator.

The stock fans don't even turn on low until 205 degrees or something, so 208 is certainly not worrisome. Is is spiraling up up?

I would check the thermostat.
Is it possible something in the conversion plumbing is not allowing proper flow?
exigeg2 is offline  
post #146 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
Yeah, once I put the AC on it starts going up constantly, I just turn it off at 210-215. If I didn't, judging by the look of it Id guess itd go up to about 220-230 before starting to slow down.

Ya know, I was kind of thinking that, but ive bleed the hell out of the system (I even used a vacuum pump to suck out any air bubbles) so as much as Id like to think its not an air pocket somewhere, it still could be possible.


I was just thinking about the flow but I have no way of monitoring the actual coolant flow (at least not that I know of... are there any relatively cheap measurement devices for coolant flow rates?) to see if it could be not enough flow?

205 for the 2zz engine Im assuming? Yeah I found that the 2gr thermostat opens at 185 fully, so it should be well open... Cant seem to find anything on target operating temp either, but Im guessing its 190-195
wek120 is offline  
post #147 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 07:07 AM
Registered User
 
cyow5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NoVa
Posts: 3,865
Are your fans kicking on when the AC kicks on? If not, there's your problem.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

"Lots Of Trouble; Usually Serious"
cyow5 is offline  
post #148 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
Yes. I have a manual override switch to kick them on full power. Ive been turning them on over 195

Formerly Wes (RIP : ( ) -- Now Brendon
wek120 is offline  
post #149 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-01-2016, 06:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
possibilities in kind of probability

thermostat[pull it. test. done]
flow restriction
flow error[somehow improper plumbing]
coolant temp sensor off[what does it say dead cold]
engine mistimed or lean[seems unlikely]

Since I have just bled my Exige S twice it is fresh in my mind.
running normally:
at idle it takes a long time[5 minutes, 10 minutes] to register at 160 degrees, and creeps up from there, slightly overshoots the thermostat to 190, settles at 185 and stays there. Radiator gets warm from one side to the other, getting hot when the thermostat opens

air in the system:
2 minutes to register on gauge, moves quickly up to 195 doesn't stop. radiator and hose never more than lukewarm. Over in less than 5 minutes.

I post this because the car should act the same regardless of engine, and if it is air, restriction, or 'bad' plumbing I expect it would act similarly



While your car has 2 spare cylinders, it really is creating little more heat at idle, and little more heat driving around. It should only stress the cooling system when you are creating more horsepower[heat] than the system was designed for. If the fans are running more than stock they should easily keep i tunder control
exigeg2 is offline  
post #150 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
It's weird it's sitting at 200 on average, fluctuating between 188 to 205 with the fans on and no AC.

I'm thinking that the fins on the fans might have been flattened down, because even at highway speed the fans drop the temps a good 5 degrees. Some are flattened on the top too.
I also have a 90deg bend on the engine outlet which I'm betting isn't helping the restriction.


Transmission update- so I've noticed that when it gets hot it shifts much worse. I'm starting to think I might need a different type of oil (just using 85w 90 right now). It will allow me to shift slowly but if I try to shift at a normally quick rate, it takes a lot of force. There's definitely a very noticeable double step (synco and gear). Definitely getting extremely frustrating to drive
wek120 is offline  
post #151 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 09:22 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
the fans don't do anything at speed, so this begs the question, which way are the fans blowing?

are they the stock fans?

All regular fans will reverse direction with polarity, but some don't really do much when in reverse

just grasping at straws really

I think if you deliberately mashed all the fins over it would still cool if you did not thromp on it
exigeg2 is offline  
post #152 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 09:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
I would humbly suggest that a good data point would be to start from cold and see which pattern it follows as I listed above. The grilles come off on that nose right? If not take the wheel arch liners out and put your hand on the hose. No fans, from cold, does the radiator gradually get hot from side to side until when the thermostat opens the whole radiator is hot.
exigeg2 is offline  
post #153 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:14 PM
glb
Registered User
 
glb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chester, NJ
Posts: 11,181
The best transmission lube I’ve found is Redline MT-90 plus a little Power Punch Extreme Gear Oil Additive. (Note that it takes two changes to get rid of the previous lube.)

a) Early cars have wobbly shift towers. Look up Stan’s Mod (bolt and spacer; http://www.billswebspace.com/ShifterReinforcement.pdf) and

Sector 111 long thru bolt that terminates under car: re-ENFORCER - Shift reinforcement for the Lotus Elise and Exige - Sector111

These (lube, mods) make a huge change in shifting.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

Driving Tips-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...art-1-a-49665/
Moss Emergency Line-https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...cy-line-36631/
Bleeding Brakes- https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f10...-brakes-241138
glb is offline  
post #154 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
>.< broke down on the side of the road today… think I found a bit of a culprit; the clutch master gave out. Somehow or another the pressure actually burst through the porosity of the cast aluminum and started spraying out like a tiny balloon with a bunch of pinholes. Im starting to think that the clutch master may have had something to do with it. Im thinking the clutch may have been dragging.

Good to know on the MT90. Ive used mt85 before but I never really figured out which one I needed to use with the LSD in terms of additives or not having additives. Thing is, it isn't grinding when shifting, it just won't sync fast enough.. as if there is almost too much lubrication (does the lsd additive make it slip more or less?)


Exigeg2 ; as in fans on drop the temps 5 degrees lower regardless if Im stopped or moving. They're definitely going the right way. Next time its running Ill definitely do that check. I did noticed before I broke down that the thermostat opened distinctly at 187 (I was able to watch it hit that temp then hold still while the downstream temp rose).
wek120 is offline  
post #155 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 08:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
It occurs to me as I look at the shop manual, the radiator is upside down. Hot water going in the left, lower side and cooler water coming out the right upper side.

No wonder they don't bleed well.

[looks like Celica does it this way as well, weird.... bee interesting to see how the Exige V6 is plumbed]

Last edited by exigeg2; 07-04-2016 at 11:46 AM.
exigeg2 is offline  
post #156 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 08:53 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
It also appears to be coming in towards the thermostat housing, which maybe is normal on this motor, but seems weird. It must mean there is a particular way to plumb the beast which may not be obvious when transferring to another engine
exigeg2 is offline  
post #157 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-06-2016, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
wek120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 787
Yeah I noticed that, but that's the way they designed the heat flow so I matched up the flow directions exactly.

Well I ordered the eliseparts upgraded radiator and cooling fans. I figure Ill need it for when I turbo it anyways so might as well do it sooner than later.

Im going to try draining out the coolant and running distilled water and WaterWetter, supposedly it can run up to 20 deg cooler (yeah right) but if even 5-10 deg that will still help until I get the radiator in.

New Clutch master on the way from MWR. Guess Ill have to completely bleed the system ... fun.

Formerly Wes (RIP : ( ) -- Now Brendon
wek120 is offline  
post #158 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 08:27 AM
Registered User
 
Eyelise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,636
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigeg2 View Post
It also appears to be coming in towards the thermostat housing, which maybe is normal on this motor, but seems weird. It must mean there is a particular way to plumb the beast which may not be obvious when transferring to another engine
On my Elise the coolant return line is driver side and connects to the block not the thermostat housing. I would be surprised if it is different on the Exige. The radiator is positioned as previously mentioned. I found to get the air out I actually had to jack up the front of the car. You also need to bleed both places, front radiator and engine block.
Eyelise is offline  
post #159 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 10:27 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 55
I think you are mistaken, looking at the shop manual it is shown as out of the engine through left hand sill and into the lower left of the radiator. This confirms what my hands tell me touching the radiator and hoses, radiator heats left to right

"From the main outlet on the rear face of the cylinder head, a moulded hose connects with the main
radiator feed pipe which runs inside the left hand chassis side rail, before feeding the front mounted radiator"
exigeg2 is offline  
post #160 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-11-2016, 04:44 PM
Registered User
 
Eyelise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Mass
Posts: 1,636
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigeg2 View Post
I think you are mistaken, looking at the shop manual it is shown as out of the engine through left hand sill and into the lower left of the radiator. This confirms what my hands tell me touching the radiator and hoses, radiator heats left to right

"From the main outlet on the rear face of the cylinder head, a moulded hose connects with the main
radiator feed pipe which runs inside the left hand chassis side rail, before feeding the front mounted radiator"
You are right. from the service manual
Attached Images
 

05 Saffron Elise (#151)!!!!!
Nitron NTR singles 550/700
BOE Rev 400, fuel surge tank, EFI 1.2
PPE Testpipe, BOE Silent Touch
RacePak IQ3 dash with EFI module
ACT HD/SS clutch, Fidanza FW, LETSA...
Eyelise is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > General Discussion (Lotus related)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome