Autocar Magazine Elise Vs Everything!!! - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surferjer
If the HP is up some 30% over the 135, how much is the weight increase as a % of the 135? I find it hard to believe that the weight was up more than 10%, but i could be wrong. In other words, we are getting more bang for our buck. And the Federal Elise might be a lot better than the 135. I'm sure we'll have more answers once the damned thing finally gets here and all the mags get their grubby little hands on them.
Some data:

1996 1.8i: 118hp/1594lbs
1997 Sport 190: 190hp/1484lbs
1998 Sport 135 135hp/1632lbs
1999 111s: 143hp/1698lbs
2000 Sport 160: 160hp/1698lbs
2001 S2 1.8i: 130hp/1654lbs
2001 S2 Sport 135: 135hp/??
2002 S2 Sport 190: 190hp/1566
2002 S2 111S: 156hp/??

Horsepower/weight ratios are great and all for straight line acceleration, but don't tell the whole story for track times, as cornering grip falls directly with vehicle weight, and grip is a primary component of exit speed out of the corners. In addition, weight taxes the braking system causing degredation of pedal feel and driver confidence.

That said, I'm sure the Federal Elise will rock and roll. I'm just trying to be realistic in comparing the published mag data and extrapolating to the Fed Elise.
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy Chase
Not quite what I had remembered....

Early review of the Exige-
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...=&threadid=873

Note, as far as I can tell, the S2 Exige is really a slower Elise.

From this, I would read that the new Elise is quicker than the lighter 199bhp Exige. By 2 seconds on that track. I think everyone would agree that the 199bhp Exige was a faster car than the 156hp Elise.
Randy, I think I missed your point. But, I have a belly full of wine this evening. Hiccup.

The S2 Exige is reputed to be 2s/lap faster than the S1 according to your quote.

The S2 Elise is reputed to be 1.5 s/lap at the same hp from the Best of British DVD.

However, this doesn't answer the question of what the effect will be of adding power to the clearly more capable S2 chassis, i.e., going from the 135 hp model tested to the 190hp, while adding a bunch of sandbags.
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by James A
Let's hear it for the Caterham, better than all but two cars and within fractons of a second of those!
I can only hope the Elise is as thrilling as my Caterham! We will see.
It is a great car but it is NOT a Seven!
A Caterham 7 is by far the most fun car I have ever driven. It still makes me smile

2006 Exige Chrome Orange
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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jml1952
Wait a minute, I heard the same story from him. Were you there on Friday morning (first day the show opened to the public)??
Nope, couldn't make the opening, so I suspect we didn't cross paths.

It's a good anecdote; I suppose Mr. Adams used it for the duration.

Makes me smile when I read glowing reviews of the lesser powered siblings and I connect the dots.

Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Need4Speed
Very interesting that at 352 bhp, and at 182% of the 135R's power-to-weight ratio, the Noble only outpaced the Lotus by 0.4s 'round the circuit.

When talking with Nick Adams at the LAAS, comparing the differing versions of the Elise, he grinned and said how at the end of the day the engineers and test drivers at Hethel could take any of the Elise flavors home for the night, and invariably the keys for the Toyota-powered (ie. Federal prototype) Elise were all gone off the rack, leaving the others to sit. Spoke volumes to him.

Now imagine our 190 hp Loti around Rockingham...
I love the Elise but let be real. Assuming you have drivers of equal skill the Noble will beat the Elise every time. You need to remember it only weighs in at 2,380 lbs so itís no heavy weight. Add to this itís huge power advantage and itís a done deal. Handling wise the Noble is like a bigger more powerful Elise, so you will not have any advantage in the corners. As for the straights, you must realize that 0- 100 in like 8.8 seconds compared to the Eliseís 12s is gonna make a huge difference. And it you get the sport package you need to remember that Noble also offers a sports package in the form of the M400 upgrade. It will adds another 70 BHP, lighten the car and gives you a more track focused suspension. It is said to be sickly fast.

Of course the Noble is much more money so advantage Elise. But if you go to SELOC and poke around you will find few people the would think twice about trading you their Elise for a Noble.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 06:52 AM
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Sports Car Revolution on Speed Channel has a Noble piece every week. The show is crap, but every once in a while they have an interesting bit. Still interesting segment every week if you like Noble's.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Derek
I love the Elise but let be real. Assuming you have drivers of equal skill the Noble will beat the Elise every time. You need to remember it only weighs in at 2,380 lbs so itís no heavy weight. Add to this itís huge power advantage and itís a done deal. Handling wise the Noble is like a bigger more powerful Elise, so you will not have any advantage in the corners. As for the straights, you must realize that 0- 100 in like 8.8 seconds compared to the Eliseís 12s is gonna make a huge difference. And it you get the sport package you need to remember that Noble also offers a sports package in the form of the M400 upgrade. It will adds another 70 BHP, lighten the car and gives you a more track focused suspension. It is said to be sickly fast.

Of course the Noble is much more money so advantage Elise. But if you go to SELOC and poke around you will find few people the would think twice about trading you their Elise for a Noble.
You've entirely misconstrued my comments.

No one in their right mind would expect a sub-200 bhp Elise, 135R, Federal, or otherwise to outcompete a Noble, nor was I implying that in my post.

Quote:
Handling wise the Noble is like a bigger more powerful Elise, so you will not have any advantage in the corners.
Perhaps you needed to remember, per that article, the 135R was actually 5 mph faster in the corners (peak speed).

My point was, given the obvious performance advantages of the much more expensive Noble, it was surprising how close the two still came in track times.

My point was, given how close the two were in track times, one could look to even better results from a 111R/Federalized Elise around the same track. Obviously, just how much better remains to be seen, hence the word 'imagine'.

I thought that was plainly stated, and more 'real' than a 300-400 hp mystery Elise tooling around Miami, you must realize...

Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by shay2nak
Nick is the guy with the beard, right?
Yup.

Photos of Nick:

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...ight=HRM+adams

Perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away.

- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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