My daughter's Elise featured on Automobile.com - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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My daughter's Elise featured on Automobile.com

Here's a link to an article comparing the Alfa 4C and my daughter's 2005 Lotus Elise: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Spider ? Better Than the Lotus Elise? - Automobile

What do you all think? There are a few points I don't agree with...but I'll let you all figure out if you can tell which ones

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Avery View Post
Here's a link to an article comparing the Alfa 4C and my daughter's 2005 Lotus Elise: 2015 Alfa Romeo 4C Spider ? Better Than the Lotus Elise? - Automobile

What do you all think? There are a few points I don't agree with...but I'll let you all figure out if you can tell which ones
cool little article. not sure how the writer can favor the 4c's handling over the elise after also stating that it's significantly lighter and holds more g's on the skidpad. but i also haven't driven the 4c. obviously the whole thing is a bit subjective.

I personally don't like the 4c's exterior styling. I actually liked it until I saw it next to an elise. I'm not sure if it'll hold the test of time like the Elise has in my opinion.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:20 AM
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I spent five days with the 4C (press loaner). I would agree with Automobile that the 4C has better ergonomics -- if not for the fact that Alfa's seating and pedal positions were hell on my right foot. I could never find a comfortable position. First car that actually made my ankle hurt.

I also vehemently disagree that 4C visibility is better. It sucks.

Handling? 4C might have better handling if properly sorted, but the press car was not. Eric of Suspension Performance told me that alignments were screwed up on the boat coming from Europe, causing the car to wander at safe highways speeds on normal pavement. Seriously, like other reviewers, I found the fidgety behavior of the 4C to be downright scary. The car felt more or less fine in corners, but the steering is excessively heavy -- and I like a heavy wheel.

Tranny: Disagree with Automobile. I'm now hating the Elise transmission due to misshifts on the track, and I had no problem with Afla's sequential.

Driver engagement: Disagree with Automobile. Elise WINS!

2005 Chrome Orange Lotus Elise:
  • hard top, touring pack, HIDs, SJ Racing 15x7/16x8 track wheels
  • RTD Brace, Nitron 46mm Race Pro 1-Way, BOE oil pan
  • orange/black Lotus Sport trim shop seats, 6-point Schroth belts, Safety Solutions R3 Head & Neck Restraint System
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:42 AM
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Is my math or understanding of a power to weight ratio wrong? if the 4C is 2470 pounds with 237hp (10.42 pounds/hp), is that not the same as the Lotus at 1980 pounds and 190 hp (10.42 pounds/hp)? He did not say the weight of the lotus so I made the number up based upon what I have seen on LT.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 09:46 AM
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Thanks for posting.

One check list item for me is a stick shift, so I'd always favor the Elise.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:26 AM
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One check list item for me is a stick shift, so I'd always favor the Elise.
Yup.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 10:28 AM
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I am curious how the 4C will hold it's value over time as well.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 11:23 AM
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Cool article, I love the alcantra parts on the interior of the Elise, those were added/not stock right? Bummer the article is unfavorable on the Elise. I like the 4C but hard to compare the technologies apples to apples as the 4C was designed much later than the Elise was with the $$$ of Fiat behind them.

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 11:48 AM
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The 4C sounds unbelievable, better than any Elise/Exige I've heard with any exhaust.

Owned, loved, enjoyed, and now gone:
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickshu View Post
Cool article, I love the alcantra parts on the interior of the Elise, those were added/not stock right? Bummer the article is unfavorable on the Elise. I like the 4C but hard to compare the technologies apples to apples as the 4C was designed much later than the Elise was with the $$$ of Fiat behind them.
Thanks. The dash and steering wheel were later upgraded with Alcantara, yes.

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2011 Lotus Evora 2+0

Last edited by Ron Avery; 05-14-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JonOrangeElise View Post

Tranny: Disagree with Automobile. I'm now hating the Elise transmission due to misshifts on the track, and I had no problem with Afla's sequential.
You might try stiffer transmission/engine mounts if you have't already, should lateral loading be the cause.

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 01:08 PM
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You might try stiffer transmission/engine mounts if you have't already, should lateral loading be the cause.
Well... Rob Deitsch just did some work on it. Motor mount inserts, along with a bunch of work on the shifter itself. The problem was upshifting from 2nd to 3rd at Turn 11 at Laguna. Before his work, I was getting "locked out" or grinding or hitting 5th by mistake every other upshift exiting that turn. After the work, I made it through four 20 minute sessions with just two misshifts. I'm still not loving Lotus's shifter, but it's better after his mods.

2005 Chrome Orange Lotus Elise:
  • hard top, touring pack, HIDs, SJ Racing 15x7/16x8 track wheels
  • RTD Brace, Nitron 46mm Race Pro 1-Way, BOE oil pan
  • orange/black Lotus Sport trim shop seats, 6-point Schroth belts, Safety Solutions R3 Head & Neck Restraint System
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JonOrangeElise View Post
Well... Rob Deitsch just did some work on it. Motor mount inserts, along with a bunch of work on the shifter itself. The problem was upshifting from 2nd to 3rd at Turn 11 at Laguna. Before his work, I was getting "locked out" or grinding or hitting 5th by mistake every other upshift exiting that turn. After the work, I made it through four 20 minute sessions with just two misshifts. I'm still not loving Lotus's shifter, but it's better after his mods.
That doesn't sound pleasant! Haven't had the same issue really, but I primarily track at Buttonwillow, so I can't compare notes on Laguna T11.

The gates are a lot closer together in my GT4, particularly side to side. So sometimes when getting into the Elise after a long hiatus, I have to re acclimate to how far left and right the stick must be moved. That's about the only time I've been blocked out of a gear.

I did mounts, shifter base mod, and upgraded shifter cables. Don't think I'll go for an aftermarket shifter base / assembly, but would like to try one.

'05 Lotus Elise: RS134 Monolites, Nitron Singles, Monoballs, V2 arms, RTD2 brace, Innovative motor mounts, V2 tank, GPan, Larini 8", TransCables, LumosHID, GiroDisc, Ferodo DS2500, etc.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 02:18 PM
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I highly recommend Power Punch moly additive for Elise transmissions.

I have two of these 6 speeds and both shift better, even in cold weather, than they had.

I assume Rob (who is VERY good) did the Stan mod to shift tower. That helped me, as did the Sector 111 through bolt and plate.
---

Article:

Inflation means that a $45k car from 2005 would cost $54,600 today.

That Alfa is significantly more expensive.

I don't want a turbo. I don't want an automatic.

I'd bet that the Lotus is the more reliable car, but Alfa sell so few that we may never know.

05 elise (BOE Rev300 supercharged, SSRs, shift tower mods, Multivex; HID hi/low beams); 05 Corolla XRS. Past '72 Elan Sprint (I restored), Lotus 7 w/X-flow, TT Supra, Bugeye Sprite, BMW 2002 & 2002tii, '65 GTO.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 04:26 PM
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Nice Elise. And cool little website. So if we compare the Elise SC to the Alfa 4c, the Elise SC either wins or at least basically ties on his three categories of Engine, Power and Performance. With those three taken away as wins from the 4c, it clearly loses its winning spot and the Elise SC pulls way ahead. In your face, Alfa 4c! No doubt the Elise takes a hit on getting in and out, but if you get the technique down it's a piece of cake -- I use the technique of putting your right hand at the base of the handbrake and left hand on sill, lift butt in the air slightly, stick left leg out, stick butt on sill, bend head all the way over, pull butt and head out, right leg last. Getting in is done like that but in reverse. What's so hard about that? The automatic in the 4c is a game-over problem. A car like that cries out for a manual transmission.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonOrangeElise View Post
Well... Rob Deitsch just did some work on it. Motor mount inserts, along with a bunch of work on the shifter itself. The problem was upshifting from 2nd to 3rd at Turn 11 at Laguna. Before his work, I was getting "locked out" or grinding or hitting 5th by mistake every other upshift exiting that turn. After the work, I made it through four 20 minute sessions with just two misshifts. I'm still not loving Lotus's shifter, but it's better after his mods.
I had the same problem, put in stiffer transmission mounts, and the problem is gone. (Down side is that there's more vibration conducted to the driver, but it's worth the better shifting.)
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 05:46 PM
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The article seemed to hail the Elise the victor in more categories and then but then came out of left field at the end with a win for the Alfa. I think the reviewer was seduced by the "newness", the growl and the turbo punch of the 4C. I mean, these designs are 20 years apart.

I've said this before, but I very nearly bought a 4C. I ended up going with the Lotus due to concerns over the reliability/quality of a Fiat product, and because I just could not bring myself buy a driver's car without a manual transmission.

Very cool car though, in any case.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 05:47 PM
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Nice to see an 11 year old car go up against a modern car but I find this whole article lacking any credible substance. So much misinformed statements that one doesn't know where to begin. To me it's not a matter about which is better but rather getting your facts straight if you're going to put an article out and so far I see very little of it.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-14-2016, 06:31 PM
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Nice to see an 11 year old car go up against a modern car but I find this whole article lacking any credible substance. So much misinformed statements that one doesn't know where to begin. To me it's not a matter about which is better but rather getting your facts straight if you're going to put an article out and so far I see very little of it.
my thoughts exactly, useless verbiage... not sure what the point was of it. most of the comments make no sense.

some nice pics though, i like the Alfa, and i like my Elise.

"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 04-15-2016, 10:50 AM
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Interesting comparison. I agree that some of the points don't make sense, but I commend Fiat/Alfa for actually going forward with selling a car like this today. It's the closest any other manufacturer has gotten to that raw, manual feel in a very long time. We need more cars like these.

That said, it's pretty expensive and still isn't as special as any Lotus model for me. Plus, while the reliability of Italian and British parts are suspect at best, at least Lotus used a reliable powertrain.
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