New Radiator with F1 tech core - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 10:43 AM Thread Starter
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New Radiator with F1 tech core

So we've been playing with a new project at BWR. Our Ultimate street car has been upgraded with alot more power with full racegas tune etc. This car is seeing alot of track duty and combined with the front mount intercooler, we've had trouble keeping temps down. Additionally, I wanted to get some weight out of the radiator compared to the big double thick monster in the XP car.

So after talking to several experts in the field, we found a radiator core like none other. It is the Denso F1 core.

It is called the F1 core because F1 cars(as well as NASCAR, INDY etc) use it.

What makes it special? Essentially the tube spacing of the car is very small, only 0.25" center on center vs 0.4" So there are more tubes running across which gives more surface area for the water. Additionally, the fin spacing is very high at 21 Fins per Inch vs 14-18 for other solutions. This gives more surface area for the air to transfer heat.

Here's the last bit that will blow your mind. It is 27mm thick. Yep, not 42, not 45mm, 27mm. That's it.

How can that possibly work? Simple. Specific heat of water is 4.2 times higher than air. That means it takes 4.2 times more energy to heat a qty of water 1 degree than air.

When the cooler outside air hits the radiator, the air heats up 4.2 times the rate the water cools down. Thus the outside face of the radiator does alot of cooling but halfway through the radiator, the air is much hotter but the water only a little cooler. So the back half of the radiator doesn't do much since cooling is also a function of delta between the water and air temps. As the radiator experts told me, the first 1/3 of the radiator does 2/3s of the cooling.

Better to make the radiator thinner, use more tubes and fins to get the flow and surface area for the water and air to exchange heat. This is a more expensive manufacturing process.

We just tested this design on the car this weekend. The car did not get above 190F and recovers much faster. Previously we would see 225F+ Although contrary to conventional wisdom, this radiator will support over 400HP

The last advantage is obviously less weight. It is lighter by over a lb and saves even more in water weight.

The only downside is that it is spendy. We are able to save costs because 1 core is double height of the lotus radiator so we can use one core for 2 radiators. Even with this we are talking about a $725-$750 radiator.

Are there any hardcore autox or track folks that want the lightest and best? Post if you're in and and I'll look at putting a batch together.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 10:57 AM
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Pix? Wouldn't be purchasing, just want to see some heat exchanger porn.

because racecar
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 11:18 AM
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Easy install?

Bolts right up with no mod or drilling? Rusty
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 01:29 PM
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Interesting. I too was getting some over heating issues with the HEX installed under the EP radiator. I used a big ass pusher fan underneath to fix the issue on my car. Two top mount pullers won't work when pulling through the fat radiator and HEX.... at least not in grid or in stop and go traffic. Might be fine on track.... but so would no fans.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-20-2015, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I had the pullers on previously also. With the new rad, it works great with the 2 pullers. I don't have great pics because I was in a rush to get it in the car. No cutting etc. Just bolt in just like our current aluminum radiator and stocker.


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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 06:51 AM
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what would be the time frame for these being available?
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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what would be the time frame for these being available?
The design is done, just a matter of getting a group of folks together that are interested. 2-3 weeks from when we pull the trigger.


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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-21-2015, 07:35 AM
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The design is done, just a matter of getting a group of folks together that are interested. 2-3 weeks from when we pull the trigger.
I think it would be good for my setup... will talk to Phil about it and get his opinion on it to see if he agrees I should get one... if so, I'm in.

looking forward to the improved C64 tranny too!
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-03-2016, 06:50 AM
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So I just upgraded to this radiator from the Pro Alloy radiator. Last weekend I was hitting 215* after a 60 second run. My car is making about 400whp and 300 wftlb. Ambient temps were about 87*.

I'm hoping this helps out some as I'm doing a prosolo this weekend coming up. In a pro solo, there is no time to cool the car between runs that you take back to back to back to back.

Here's a pic of the F1 next to the Pro Alloy. It's giving me some hope.

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 05-08-2016, 07:04 PM
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Mine is mostly track so I hope I don't run into overheating. I have the ProAlloy/Hex arrangement. Another thought is running an electric water pump. You can move a lot more water that way which should help as well..

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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-15-2016, 07:01 AM
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Just a follow up:

So, after installation of this radiator the temps have definitely dropped. I'd say on average, I'm seeing about a 10* difference in the max temps and a quicker recovery. The car has an electric water pump.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 04:58 PM
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Is this an off the shelf item or was there a group buy? I don't see it on BWR's website.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 07:15 PM
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Is this an off the shelf item or was there a group buy? I don't see it on BWR's website.
Yeah, what this guy said...Fred I was hitting 230 today on the way home with the dash blinking at me.

"...but it's a dry heat..."
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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I can put a batch together. Who's in?


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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 05:21 AM
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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 06:29 AM
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Yes please!

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 07:22 AM
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Me.

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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 09:43 AM
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Yeah, what this guy said...Fred I was hitting 230 today on the way home with the dash blinking at me.

"...but it's a dry heat..."
Paging Donbecker. Your answer is wanted for the group buy.

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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,

I have the F1 Radiator on our website now. It was a bit more than before since I have to do a custom flange to fit the lotus(Our test mule, we drilled our own holes.) Retail price is $850. Our introductory price is $795. We should have them in 3 weeks or so.

27mm Denso F1 Radiator

If you've never changed the radiator and your car is older than 5 years, add the silicon radiator hoses to the order. Might as well change them while you are in there!


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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 06-28-2016, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by fzust View Post
Hi Guys,

I have the F1 Radiator on our website now. It was a bit more than before since I have to do a custom flange to fit the lotus(Our test mule, we drilled our own holes.) Retail price is $850. Our introductory price is $795. We should have them in 3 weeks or so.

27mm Denso F1 Radiator

If you've never changed the radiator and your car is older than 5 years, add the silicon radiator hoses to the order. Might as well change them while you are in there!
Fred, is this just for track cars or its ok for street cars also?
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