IMPROVED A/C & HEATING SYSTEM - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 186 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:42 AM
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After removing and reinstalling my front clam a few weeks ago, I've noticed that I'm missing the clam spline hot air dam. Does anyone have any good pictures of what it looks like or a part number or alternative solution?

It's the "hot air dam" in the picture.

Last edited by SirLotus; 03-13-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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post #42 of 186 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:51 AM Thread Starter
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See my post #1 with solution, with or without insulation block, and photo #7.
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy View Post
After removing and reinstalling my front clam a few weeks ago, I've noticed that I'm missing the clam spline hot air dam. Does anyone have any good pictures of what it looks like or a part number or alternative solution?

It's the "hot air dam" in the picture.
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post #43 of 186 (permalink) Old 08-31-2009, 08:23 PM
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Just wrapped the duct and shroud pieces off the radiator today, looking forward to seeing how this does during our next hot day out.

Nice and easy install for a potential big benefit.

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post #44 of 186 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 03:45 AM Thread Starter
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Did you also do the central spline?
Michael
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Originally Posted by BealeAss View Post
Just wrapped the duct and shroud pieces off the radiator today, looking forward to seeing how this does during our next hot day out.

Nice and easy install for a potential big benefit.
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post #45 of 186 (permalink) Old 09-01-2009, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TheViper View Post
Did you also do the central spline?
Michael
Yup stuffed some of it around that piece as well.

05 Starlight Black on Black-Vader Package:Sport/Touring/Black LSS/Black Diffusor/Hardtop/Starshield/Extra Starshield/Leather Console/Tint/HID/Yellow Hi Beams/Micromirror/Carpet Buttons/Stan Shifter Mod/Trunk Bootie/Larini SE/Euro Grill/Fujita Intake/Azenis/ipod mod/4 JL Audio VR525-CXi/Starlight Black A/C Surround/Kemmler Seat Mod/Hardwired V1/Schroth Profi ii ASM/V-FORCE Harness Bar/S111 Harness Hardware/CRDMount/TitanQR/HNT Pad
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post #46 of 186 (permalink) Old 09-22-2009, 03:51 PM
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I have fought many battles with my A/C with Vipers advise guiding me along the way, I just completed the insulation of the front end of my 05 elise as the latest skirmish along the way to victory. I can say that this has made a large improvement, before I was getting noticeable hot air from the vents after the engine warmed up which the A/C had to overcome, now this is almost eliminated and I get a steady stream of 48 degree air out the vents when the car is up to temp, after the footwell mod and covering the front intakes this is the best the car has done yet. I might go ahead and insulate the footwell and the sills but not yet, at least it is liveable now.

Many thanks to Viper for his great tech tips on this.

Todd
So. Georgia USA where it is hot as hell most of the time.
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post #47 of 186 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BealeAss View Post
Just wrapped the duct and shroud pieces off the radiator today, looking forward to seeing how this does during our next hot day out.

Nice and easy install for a potential big benefit.
I did the same... I don't notice much difference at all and I even installed the hot air dam which was missing previously.

I'm planning on doing the footwell and front vent mod next...
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post #48 of 186 (permalink) Old 02-01-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy View Post
I did the same... I don't notice much difference at all and I even installed the hot air dam which was missing previously.

I'm planning on doing the footwell and front vent mod next...
Did you make something to act as a hot air dam or buy a replacement piece? I just fixed my resistor pack problem and was going to do the insulating thing as well but that part is also missing on my car.

2005 Elise, Nightfall Blue
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post #49 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-03-2010, 07:37 PM
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Hi All ...

I'm new to the forum; reason I joined was that I'm about to order an Elise from the new dealership here in Oman, where in the high summer we get 50 degrees C temperatures. The dealer recommends the 'Auxilliary AC' be installed as an option, but, and here's the kicker, for the Middle East market, the auxilliary AC can't be added without the rest of the Touring Pack, which I don't really want and adds approx US$ 5000 to the price. But what I'm reading here is invaluable!

I've only been a member for 5 minutes and already I've saved myself a heap of cash - that's value for money!

Rich
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post #50 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 04:28 AM
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I haven't had my Elise long enough to contribute much here, but went through a prolonged war against intake air temperatures (airbox, not cockpit) in a production-based race car, spending countless hours on track and $$$ at the dyno with data logging to make sure I wasn't BS-ing myself.

With some coaxing from a turbocharger engineer, one thing I learned is this ridiculously expensive gold stuff ...

Pegasus - Self Adhesive GOLD Reflective Heat Barrier Film

... is amazing at keeping the thing you want to keep cold from being affected by the thing that is emitting the heat. In my case, I ended up wrapping intake and cooling plumbing that was near radiators and exhaust, and I had dramatically better results doing this than using "heat wrap" on the exhaust and silver foil/fiberglass "insulation" tape on the intake plumbing.

Anyway, based on this background, I would be interested in whether Viper or anyone else thinks there are any strategic places where the high-$$$ gold stuff might be worth it in the Elise A/C mod application?

My first thought was the accordion duct shown in #3 of Viper's writeup, just because it is similar to the application I was testing.

I'm also wondering how much of the #1 and #2 gains are due to sealing of gaps versus the "insulation" (or reflectiveness?).

Any thoughts?
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post #51 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
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My first observation is that this product is simply gold colored, not gold which is efficient at reflecting heat, so how effective it would be I don't know.
Secondly, reflective material is only good for radiant heat, therefore not applicable to convected heat where surfaces are in contact with each other, for that you need insulation. Interestingly enough, the McLaren F1's engine bay is coated in an actual gold finish.
I do believe that the the sealing of the gaps is highly efficient at reducing heat soak, however I would also refer to the procedure as insulating.
In saying all that, the only way to prove or disprove it's effectiveness is by scientific comparison.
Cheers,
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by a43656 View Post
I haven't had my Elise long enough to contribute much here, but went through a prolonged war against intake air temperatures (airbox, not cockpit) in a production-based race car, spending countless hours on track and $$$ at the dyno with data logging to make sure I wasn't BS-ing myself.

With some coaxing from a turbocharger engineer, one thing I learned is this ridiculously expensive gold stuff ...

Pegasus - Self Adhesive GOLD Reflective Heat Barrier Film

... is amazing at keeping the thing you want to keep cold from being affected by the thing that is emitting the heat. In my case, I ended up wrapping intake and cooling plumbing that was near radiators and exhaust, and I had dramatically better results doing this than using "heat wrap" on the exhaust and silver foil/fiberglass "insulation" tape on the intake plumbing.

Anyway, based on this background, I would be interested in whether Viper or anyone else thinks there are any strategic places where the high-$$$ gold stuff might be worth it in the Elise A/C mod application?

My first thought was the accordion duct shown in #3 of Viper's writeup, just because it is similar to the application I was testing.

I'm also wondering how much of the #1 and #2 gains are due to sealing of gaps versus the "insulation" (or reflectiveness?).

Any thoughts?
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post #52 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 09:25 AM
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I know what the effectiveness of the material CAN be, but all my testing was for a completely different application ...so what I really don't know is how it will translate to this Elise HVAC matter.

In my case I undoubtedly had plenty of radiant sources (primarily the header) but also all the conduction and convection from the rest of the engine bay.

In my case, all the insulation and gap-sealing didn't drop air temps any (but the gap-sealing did drop coolant temps) ... but when I topped the insulated air intake plumbing with the gold foil I got about a 10 degree drop (down from 114 F) when everything was fully heat soaked.

Can you hazard any guess as to how much of what you are trying to combat with the Elise HVAC is radiant in nature? I was specifically curious about the "Radiator Cowl" piece.

(I think I just figured out that the other posters are referring to the photo numbers 1, 2, 3, and I was referring to the numbered paragraphs in the write-up.)
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post #53 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-16-2010, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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I would say that all of the heat sources in the front of the car are from radiant sources. Simply blocking off the radiant heat from the radiator to the HVAC duct provided an appreciable drop in vent temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a43656 View Post
I know what the effectiveness of the material CAN be, but all my testing was for a completely different application ...so what I really don't know is how it will translate to this Elise HVAC matter.

In my case I undoubtedly had plenty of radiant sources (primarily the header) but also all the conduction and convection from the rest of the engine bay.

In my case, all the insulation and gap-sealing didn't drop air temps any (but the gap-sealing did drop coolant temps) ... but when I topped the insulated air intake plumbing with the gold foil I got about a 10 degree drop (down from 114 F) when everything was fully heat soaked.

Can you hazard any guess as to how much of what you are trying to combat with the Elise HVAC is radiant in nature? I was specifically curious about the "Radiator Cowl" piece.

(I think I just figured out that the other posters are referring to the photo numbers 1, 2, 3, and I was referring to the numbered paragraphs in the write-up.)
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post #54 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BealeAss View Post
Yup stuffed some of it around that piece as well.

Can anyone tell me if theres any step by step photo instructions for sealing front air intakes?

Do I have to remove the clam?

Thanks
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post #55 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Simply remove the front grill and use duct tape over the two air intakes.
Michael
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Originally Posted by monkeyboo View Post
Can anyone tell me if theres any step by step photo instructions for sealing front air intakes?

Do I have to remove the clam?

Thanks
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post #56 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 04:26 PM
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Simply remove the front grill and use duct tape over the two air intakes.
Michael
Thanks Michael Hope it will help cool it down!
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post #57 of 186 (permalink) Old 05-19-2010, 04:59 PM
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Drove today from Daytona to West Palm taking the back roads so I was in the sun for about 4 hours. It was about 85 degrees and sunny. The interior stayed in the mid 70's and the vent temperature was about 45-51 degrees.

I did the Vipers mods (minus all the interior cabin insulation he did, and have untinted windows) and I also did the Tony Wa heater bypass which keeps the vent temperature down a few degrees also.

I actaully had to shut the a/c off since it was getting too cold, since the bypass does not let you raise the temperature.
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post #58 of 186 (permalink) Old 06-01-2010, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TheViper View Post
I do believe that the the sealing of the gaps is highly efficient at reducing heat soak, however I would also refer to the procedure as insulating.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael/Viper, showed your document to my Lotus distributor to help me with, as it's there for it's first servicing. It's 30C here daily, with high humidity, so you can imagine I'll appreciate any benefit it brings to the Europa (although the Europa has quite a bit more insulation on the sills/ engine already)

Just wanted to say that you and your document are a treasure.

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Honda CRX Del Sol, Mazda RX-7 FD3S, Toyota MR-S +turbo
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post #59 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-05-2010, 10:11 AM
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Oily smell blowing in when using AC

Hello All,

I just purchased my first Elise. A pristine Aspen white 2006 with only 7,500 miles on the clock.

The car is gorgeous and runs incredibly well.

The owner was a real fanatic about keeping it clean and unfortunately before I arrived to buy the car, he had the engine bay and working parts of the front clam 'professionally' cleaned. He thought it was a nice gesture.

The last thing I wanted was some guys spraying oil solvents and high pressure water anywhere near the engine bay...but alas....

To my point. The AC runs adequately (i'm sure I'll start doing some of Viper's mods in the near future), but there is a very distinct smell of gas/oil engine-cleany type smell blowing in from the vents when activated. I suspect there is still some cleaning solvent residue still hanging around close to the HVAC intake.

The problem is, I'm not sure where that intake is. I've read through Viper's excellent document and if I understand it correctly, most of the air is being taken in from the cabin all of the time, with outside air being drawn in from behind the front grill when recirc is not enabled.

Is this correct? And, if so, given the above engine / front clam cleaning scenario, are there any other spots where outside air could be getting pulled into the HVAC stream?

Thanks so much for your help!

Cheers,
Christian
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post #60 of 186 (permalink) Old 07-05-2010, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Christian,
Your understanding of where the air is being drawn in, is correct. The HVAC enclosure (heater/evaporator/blower) is not very well sealed, so it is possible for fumes to be sucked in. You may want to check that the main flexible air duct exiting the HVAC enclosure is correctly fitted at both ends, this can be accessed by removing the front right side access panel.
BTW, welcome to this great community.
Cheers,
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Lallo View Post
Hello All,

I just purchased my first Elise. A pristine Aspen white 2006 with only 7,500 miles on the clock.

The car is gorgeous and runs incredibly well.

The owner was a real fanatic about keeping it clean and unfortunately before I arrived to buy the car, he had the engine bay and working parts of the front clam 'professionally' cleaned. He thought it was a nice gesture.

The last thing I wanted was some guys spraying oil solvents and high pressure water anywhere near the engine bay...but alas....

To my point. The AC runs adequately (i'm sure I'll start doing some of Viper's mods in the near future), but there is a very distinct smell of gas/oil engine-cleany type smell blowing in from the vents when activated. I suspect there is still some cleaning solvent residue still hanging around close to the HVAC intake.

The problem is, I'm not sure where that intake is. I've read through Viper's excellent document and if I understand it correctly, most of the air is being taken in from the cabin all of the time, with outside air being drawn in from behind the front grill when recirc is not enabled.

Is this correct? And, if so, given the above engine / front clam cleaning scenario, are there any other spots where outside air could be getting pulled into the HVAC stream?

Thanks so much for your help!

Cheers,
Christian

Last edited by SirLotus; 07-05-2010 at 11:23 AM.
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