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New lightweight battery solution - Deka - I think its identical to Braille 2015

36K views 45 replies 18 participants last post by  kmt63 
#1 ·
Our battery was about to shoot craps, so I began looking for a Braille or an Oddyssey 680. I've got the Sector 111 Braille bracket.

I found a thread on here where someone said "Deka" was the company building Braille. Since I couldn't fine a braille and an Odessey was $150 and 20 minutes away, I googled Deka and found a local supplier. I went there and took a look at what they had.

These appear to be IDENTICAL to the Braille. I've included pics with measurements as well as a PDF I found on the Deka website.

The battery weighs 12 pounds and has 200 CCAs with a 10AH rating. It appears identical to the Braille in size as it fit perfectly with the Sector111 bracket.

Best part - he only wanted $65 for it. If you're interested, he said he would ship:
Standard Battery
Jeff Daugherty
816-421-8118
Home - All Types of Batteries at Warehouse Prices









 
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#2 ·
I just did a quick search on the web and saw a number of forums saying it was the same as the Braille branded battery. But, I can't say for sure that is accurate.

I saw online prices (before shipping) as low as $63.95 at online stores, and $55 on ebay (with $12 shipping).

It appears it may be sold under the brand name "Big Crank" as well.
 
#10 ·
I just did a quick search on the web and saw a number of forums saying it was the same as the Braille branded battery. But, I can't say for sure that is accurate...
Both batteries are produced by East Penn. Deka is just a brand - a lower spec one at that. Braille batteries are built to a higher spec range than the Deka. Building a product to meet a tighter tolerance costs more. Braille batteries offer a superior warranty as a result. They may appear to be the same on the surface but the insides are not. :)
 
#7 ·
I can only imagine where you came up with that, however it is false. Braille is just a marketing company whereas Deka is a manufacturing company. (I’ve been there a few times.) We've been running Deka's for years just as many NASCAR teams do. They are popular with GA teams too.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I am not saying Braille batteries are poor. The B2015 is the Deka EXT20L in a different case (same internals, exactly). Deka markets them for Power Sport applications whereas Braille targets auto enthusiasts.

Deka is simply the name East Penn sells under, i.e., engineer's at East Penn design and manufacture Deka batteries. All of this is easily verifiable. If you feel more comfortable with a Braille sticker on the battery -- fine. What battery you choose makes no difference to me.

(Don't believe the marketing nonsense concerning testing. Deka's specs are probably more accurate than those who rebadge them. Deka also makes BigCrank batteries as well as Magna Power among others. They are all the same.)

What I was commenting on was lack of posting insight. Maybe if posters actually knew a bit more about the topic they post about they might be able to pass on more helpful information. :shrug:
 
#15 ·
I am not saying Braille batteries are poor. The B2015 is the Deka EXT20L in a different case (same internals, exactly). Deka markets them for Power Sport applications whereas Braille targets auto enthusiasts.
Don,

With all due respect, Blake@Braille has insisted that his batteries are built to a higher specification than the Deka. Is your suggestion that they are the same is based on discussion with an engineer at East Penn or speculation? I've worked in the auto industry since 1985 and can attest that specifications can differ wildly - as a result, parts can perform very differently even though they look similar.

I will get the specifics from Braille.
 
#17 ·
Batteries------

We could eliminate all these weight concerns------somebody just has to come up with a crank----like the starting systems on the pre war---ie the Great War-the "War to end all Wars"----WW1! leave the crank at home.weight savings! no battery! no starter! no electrics! no lights!-eek--eek-
Or we could just be rational---whoever buys the smaller battery, regardless of the brand ,will have to use a "smart"charger on the car. WTF? :confused::confused:
 
#19 ·
In any case, even if the Braille batteries did test to a higher spec, what really matters is whether that difference is significant. Is a 1% difference worth 2.5 times the price? Would a 20% difference be worth that? Probably not.

Those of you who want the lightest battery at the cheapest price can rest assured that the Deka14 will start your Elise. We've got an amp, sub, and HIDs, so there is a bit of extra electrical load. If it starts the car and carries the same warranty, I'm not sure where the extra price is justified. Perhaps some premium is justified, but not 2.5 times the price.

I'll let you know if it starts in temps below freezing, but even our stock battery had problems with that.

If I was S111, i would carry the Deka as well as the Braille. For some, the extra specs (if they really exist) would be worth the extra dough. The rest of us probably have other ways to spend it and would prefer the Deka, especially since it is the cheapest battery option out there. The S111 bracket looks great and works with both, so they could continue to sell that.

FWIW, my bathroom scale measured my Deka at 11.2
 
#20 ·
I just got off the phone with Lou at East Penn Manufacturing.

Here's the deal per our conversation.

East Penn manufactures the Deka battery. We know that. Braille then takes that same East Penn Deka battery and does "some fancy stuff" to it (specific to the model apparently like putting it in a carbon case, fancy copper terminal) and does some fancy marketing. None of the "fancy stuff" changes the performance or specs of the battery at all. The inerts of both the Braille and the Deka remain identical.

jlj3394, nice find. Thanks.
 
#22 ·
Does Sector111 still make the battery bracket? I only see one which has the switch.
 
#24 ·
Are we comparing the same batteries? I'm looking at the spec sheets & finding the Dekas to be way lower than the Braille. What am I missing? :shrug:

Braille B2015 = 15lb = 425 Cold Cranking Amps @ 0 degF (Braille Spec Sheet)
Deka ETX14 = 12lb = 200 CCA @ 0 degF ( Deka spec sheet)
Deka ETX20 = 15.5lb = 270 CCA @ 0 deg F (see spec sheet above)

The Deka Brand ETX20 is rated at 270CCA and carry’s a 90 day warranty against product defects and will only be replaced if found to be below that rating. It is also only warranted for powersports use - not automotive. The ETX14 is rated even lower.

The Braille B2015 is rated at 425 CCA and carry’s a 2 year warranty which covers race and street Automotive use. All B2015 models are quality controlled and cycle tested to perform above this spec and are guaranteed for performance.

I believe starting with a more powerful battery is the best bet against the inevitable power degradation that will take place on all these batteries.
 
#29 ·
I got my information by conversing directly with the East Penn (the company that manufactures the working parts of both batteries), not by reading anything on the 'net or in a product brochure. My question was essentially what is the difference between the 2 batteries. They said no difference other than a fancy jacket, top hat and bragging. The guts under all that fancy stuff are the same. When I asked if there was any difference in the performance or specs of the 2 batteries I was told directly no.

Perhaps that 425 CCA is some of the "fancy marketing" that Braille does :shrug:. Have you tested the CCA of the battery?
 
#32 ·
I will call Lou and ask him this question. Seems strange that their CCA claim is so low and they lack a warranty for automotive use if the products are the same?

You are right, I have not done the testing but I know Braille has. I spoke directly with Blake the owner and he has always been honest with me. There is nothing 'fancy' about their marketing claims. It is a straight forward spec sheet that states the result of a specific test. Braille's claim is backed with a 2 yr warranty for automotive use.
 
#33 ·
It's just a battery,guys-----perhaps this one?
Submarine Batteries

note the size and the weight------------of ONE cell


World War II American fleet submarines had two batteries, each composed of 126 cells. By comparison, a 12-volt car battery contains only 6 cells, each producing about 2.25 volts when fully charged, with a maximum power output of about 45-50 amps. Each cell in a submarine battery produces from 1.06 volts when fully discharged, to 2.75 volts at optimum output, so connecting the 126 cells in each battery in series gives a usable output of from about 210 to 350 volts, and a power output of as much as 15,000 amps with both batteries connected in parallel. (In earlier submarines, the two batteries could be connected in series for additional voltage, but this was no longer done with the much higher capacity fleet submarine batteries.)

Each cell was about 54 inches high, 15 inches deep, and 21 inches wide, and weighed about 1,650 pounds. The two primary manufacturers were the Exide Corporation (now Exide Technologies) and the Gould Storage Battery Company (now Gould Electronics, Inc.). Each battery cell was housed in a separate acid-proof tank as a precaution against leakage, as the electrolyte was highly corrosive and could seriously weaken the pressure hull if a leak went undetected.

The battery cells were made up of lead plates, suspended in a sulfuric acid/water solution, exactly like that used in car batteries. As the cells were charged, the breakdown of the water portion of the electrolyte could produce hydrogen gas. This was removed through an elaborate ventilation system and discharged outside the pressure hull. If allowed to accumulate, of course, this gas would constitute an explosion hazard.

An additional hazard, which could be encountered in unusual circumstances, was salt water contamination of the batteries. If salt water mixed with the electrolyte, chlorine gas could be produced, with obvious dangers to the crew. A limited chlorine gas problem added to the woes of the Squalus survivors as they awaited rescue.

The battery cells required daily service. This was usually delegated to the junior members of the electrical department, who could generally be identified by the white spots on their dungarees from acid splashes. Because of the quantities of distilled water needed to keep the cells topped up, it was supplied through a hose from large tanks adjacent to the battery compartments. The space above the battery compartments was used for accomodations, with the officers' staterooms, wardroom, and chief petty officers' quarters above the forward battery and the main crew berthing area above the after battery.

Improvement in battery technology and capacity was always an important goal in submarine design. A larger battery would allow longer submerged operation and greater speed. One of the main features of the GUPPY conversions following the war was increasing battery capacity.

All original content © 2002 by FleetSubmarine.com. All rights reserved.


FleetSubmarine.com
 
#34 ·
Update: I just spoke with an East Penn Customer Service Rep named Lou. He was a nice guy who says that their claims are not overstated - in fact conservative. I got the details of the CCA@0degF test method they follow from Lou. I have called Braille as well but they are at the Petit Leman race until Monday. I want to see what test method Braille follows to see if this explains the difference (270vs425).

I will post my findings once I speak with Blake@Braille.
 
#35 ·
This is the definition of "Cold Cranking Amps" (CCA) and the parameters of the test. It is very precise and I can't understand that different manufacturers would apply a different conditions to the test.
Cold cranking amperes (CCA) is the amount of current a battery can provide at 0 °F (−18 °C). The rating is defined as the current a lead-acid battery at that temperature can deliver for 30 seconds and maintain at least 1.2 volts per cell (7.2 volts for a 12-volt battery).
Michael
 
#36 ·
I would think it would have more to do with how the different companies define the claims. Perhaps one is more conservative than the other. One might do a test at a certain temperature, or with certain equipment etc. Just think about how much dyno #'s vary from brand to brand and even within the same brand.

It will be interesting to see what Shinoo at S111 finds out.

BTW, kudos to them for looking into this - it seems clear they're more concerned about the truth than consistency. They're a good company to work with.
 
#37 ·
Actually, on modern vehicles with systems that require a high battery demand, Amp Hours (AH) is more important than Cold Cranking Amps (CCA). Starting a vehicle is relatively easy compared to the loads placed on the battery during, and after engine operation.
Michael
 
#41 ·
Which model Deka are you users running?

:up:
 
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