Who is Happy with the Direction Lotus is leading us Towards? - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 02:38 PM
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That pretty well sums it up!

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post #62 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 02:55 PM
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On the positive side the new Esprit :

however,



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post #63 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 02:59 PM
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Over on Jalopnik they have a "How would you modernize Lotus?" post, and the comments are pretty hilarious. Most folks are basically saying that Lotus "should make simple, lightweight cars again".

"Again"?

Excuse me, but they've been doing EXACTLY that for many years, and somehow most of the laptop quarterbacks on teh interwebs found enough reasons NOT to buy into the Lotus brand so far.

To quote DeNiro's Moe Tilden in "Cop Land" - "You had your chance, and you blew it!"

I did my part. I bought an Elise for full pop from a stealership, had all my service done at authorized stealerships, and I'd like to buy a second one just for backup before the current generation is gone. While everybody is whining about what Lotus did or didn't do, I'll be driving mine into the ground. If one-tenth of the non-Lotus-owning commenters who bash the "new direction" had ever put their money where their caps lock key is, there wouldn't be two-year-old Elises sitting on dealer lots right now.... and there are plenty.

So boo-hoo for the Jalopnik commenters. They are welcome to continue walking around at Cars-N-Coffee taking cellphone pics of all the Lotii that they decided not to buy, and then drive home in their Cayennes and Boxsters.

I won't be there. I'll be out driving!



That said, I like the new direction. The new interiors look great. As for the exterior styling, who cares? You can't see the exterior styling when you're driving, and isn't that the whole point? When did looking good become more important to a Lotus owner than enjoying the drive?

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post #64 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 03:41 PM
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I agree. I don't want to see lotus lose its edge, but i do want to see the brand around...
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post #65 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 03:46 PM
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[QUOTE][My last concern is pricing the bottom model out of enthusiasts hands. /QUOTE]

2nd

I like the new elise and elan except the fronts look a tad too "Stealth Fighter Lambo-ish". I can deal with the angularity, but the giant intakes at the front corners look like they just ripped off Lambos directly. The rears I really like.

They need to seperate the cars looks more to differentiate. They all look too similar.

I understand they need to make $, but I think trying to step up to the Lambo/Ferrari level with "prestige" cars will backfire. For as good as our cars are, they are in essence track cars. Lotus is known for this. It is not known for Luxo-barges. The marque will never have the cachet of Lambo or Ferrari, and not enough people will pony up the scratch when they could have the lambo or F car.

If you buy a very pricey car for the cachet, you damn well want the people who see you driving it to know what the hell it is, right? Nobody will know what the Elite is.....everybody knows when they see a Ferrari or Lambo on the street. If Lotus abandons their core customers with too heavy and expensive cars they risk giving up what they are known for, and will lose their soul in the process.

Have they lost it already?

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post #66 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 03:58 PM
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Are there enough current Elise and Exige out there to keep the hard core trackers supplied for many years to life?

I'm sure the new cars will change a lot before we see any over here.

The idea of an engine developed from scratch gives me chills. My garage still smells of oil from 20+ years ago.

I just hope that somewhere out there, a young boy finds inspiration to make something of himself to one day have a Lotus choose to own him, as has happened for me.

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post #67 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 06:41 PM
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Frankly if Lotus picked up PDK, that would be totally awesome. I know many people like switching gears themselves, but it really is no match, if speed is important. The manual gear box is an archaic concept, and I look forward to the day where I have a superior handling vehicle that allows me to focus all of my concentration on steering and acceleration, and less on optimizing the timing of my left foot and my right arm.

But I don't dispute the pleasure you get out of using a stick, therefore I wouldn't mind having those cars also.

For me, Lotus was just a track car company, until they made a car I could use every day. Lotus would never have my money without the Evora. So more of these cars will definitely be more money for Lotus.

Lotus is far from dead. The Evora was a precursor to the huge comeback they will make with these new models. I have no doubt people will be flocking to the show rooms, so long as they are priced competitively.
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post #68 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 06:57 PM
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The Ferrari guy came in. He hired Bob Lutz as a consultant.

Lotus has gone through this phase several times. Aging formerly successful product leads to declining sales. Corporate big guys come in to "fix" things and fail. Company pulls a rabbit out of the hat by going back to basics and creates a great sports car that starts the cycle all over again.

Hang on to your Elise/Exige. You can sell it at auction in 20 years and buy the next Lotus worth buying.

BTW: "Who is Happy with the Direction Lotus is leading us Towards?" ??
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post #69 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by elisesile View Post
The Ferrari guy came in. He hired Bob Lutz as a consultant.

Lotus has gone through this phase several times. Aging formerly successful product leads to declining sales. Corporate big guys come in to "fix" things and fail. Company pulls a rabbit out of the hat by going back to basics and creates a great sports car that starts the cycle all over again.

Hang on to your Elise/Exige. You can sell it at auction in 20 years and buy the next Lotus worth buying.

BTW: "Who is Happy with the Direction Lotus is leading us Towards?" ??
That would be me

Yes, Lotus has gone thru this phase only to be denied by Proton or former Lotus principals for further funding. The Ferrari guy seems to have locked up funding for all 5 models and unlike his predeccessors, is thinking of the masses rather than the niche, focus groups which Lotus have exhausted to no end. Time to cater to the rest of the world, afterall, the world does not revolve around us, or does it?

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post #70 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 09:13 PM
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That would be me

Yes, Lotus has gone thru this phase only to be denied by Proton or former Lotus principals for further funding. The Ferrari guy seems to have locked up funding for all 5 models and unlike his predeccessors, is thinking of the masses rather than the niche, focus groups which Lotus have exhausted to no end. Time to cater to the rest of the world, afterall, the world does not revolve around us, or does it?
I think you guys are mistaken, the new line is not meant for the masses, not even the old Lotus crowd since must of us cannot afford this new line of cars. I think Lotus is going after the high end customer (LF-A, Porsche, ZR1, GTR crowd) the problem I see is that for the last 50 years lotus has been making crappy cars (craftsmanship wise) so they must sell a new image and at $180K I don't know how they are going to be able to convince a Porsche buyer that a Lotus is better car, I can just hear them "just forget about our past, this Lotus is really, really good" it has taken Porsche and ferrari many decades to develop the reputation they have. Lotus is trying to do this in 5 years, good luck!! I don't think America will be voting for change this time around. to me the solution and I see little hints here and there is that Toyota buys lotus out...

P.S. Now, If there's a consolation, Chevy is selling Camaros for $45K so maybe they have the right idea.

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post #71 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 10:01 PM
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++1


Lotus needs a finance company with them to help dealers selling more cars with a more affordable interest rate loan.

Having to deal directly with the banks with a rate of 7%-10% for a personnal loan is killer.
7%? Good christ. My bank is making auto loans at 3.25%...

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post #72 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 10:10 PM
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I'm not so sure I like the styling direction, but I think this is good for the company. I find it interesting though, people complaining about the new Elise clocking in at 2500 lbs. What is the weight of its next nearest competitor? 3000+. And I'm pretty sure you'll be able to wring more than 320hp out of that car - that will just be the base.

Someone on here said it's all about power to weight ratio - wrong, wrong, wrong. We aren't drag racing. I was watching an old episode of Top Gear, and they were doing this crazy handling test to make fun of some cars with truly awful suspensions. As a counter example, they first showed an Exige doing it "This is how a car is SUPPOSED to run this course." Amen. Power to weight? Nah. Just enough mass to hold things together. Then add power to suit. If power to weight was what it was all about, we'd all own 10 year old Vipers pushing 800hp, or maybe Monster Miatas. Pfft.

Also, keep in mind these are just prototype models. They can make lesser and greater variations on each model. If the new Elise is successful, there might be a 'track' version which is more stripped, much like the Exige was supposed to be a more track-focused version of the Elise.

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post #73 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 10:18 PM
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7%? Good christ. My bank is making auto loans at 3.25%...
oh man, it's tough right now. I'm dying over what I got on my new elise loan.

a few years ago I was getting 2.3%

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post #74 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 10:51 PM
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I'm all for the direction ... big thumbs up. I hope it works out for them ... of course it might be embarassing if they do build these cars and they get a royal spanking by an Elise/Exige at the track.

Like I said before, if Lotus wanna make some good money on these cars, do what Porsche does, everything is an "extra" option - so that $60,000 Caymen ends up being $110,000 out the door.

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post #75 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 10:59 PM
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Abe,

Being a fairly new Lotus owner, you know what I am happy about? That Lotus returned to F1 racing.

Since BMW left, I find it hard to root for F1. But now, I found that passion through driving my own Lotus and watching Lotus race in F1. Though of course, the driving machines are vastly different but the connection is there.

I am guilty of dissing BMW for getting Bangle-rized and teasing new BMW owners for not having a water temp gauge and an engine oil physical dipstick. But for a company to evolve, it has to make changes. Not all of us have to fit into the comfort zone of these changes. That's the way it is. Proton is ambitious and they have the right to be.

I reckon this happens with all car manufacturers. How often have we heard the comment "They don't make (insert car model) like they used to"? Right now, this batch of Lotus owners are experiencing this transitional phase. To me, it's history in the making.

Quite frankly, it's exciting to be part of this change.


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post #76 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 11:05 PM
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Meh o well you cant make everyone happy

I don't like Mercedes!
I don't like Corvettes!
I don't like the"New"camaro!
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post #77 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-01-2010, 11:28 PM
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Abe,

Being a fairly new Lotus owner, you know what I am happy about? That Lotus returned to F1 racing.

Since BMW left, I find it hard to root for F1. But now, I found that passion through driving my own Lotus and watching Lotus race in F1. Though of course, the driving machines are vastly different but the connection is there.

I am guilty of dissing BMW for getting Bangle-rized and teasing new BMW owners for not having a water temp gauge and an engine oil physical dipstick. But for a company to evolve, it has to make changes. Not all of us have to fit into the comfort zone of these changes. That's the way it is. Proton is ambitious and they have the right to be.

I reckon this happens with all car manufacturers. How often have we heard the comment "They don't make (insert car model) like they used to"? Right now, this batch of Lotus owners are experiencing this transitional phase. To me, it's history in the making.

Quite frankly, it's exciting to be part of this change.
Guess you missed the part about Lotus Racing not being affiliated with Group Lotus (There-by, Lotus cars). And the fact that Group Lotus is trying to remove the "Lotus Racing" team from the ability to use the name.

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post #78 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 04:06 AM
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I think you guys are mistaken, the new line is not meant for the masses, not even the old Lotus crowd since must of us cannot afford this new line of cars. I think Lotus is going after the high end customer (LF-A, Porsche, ZR1, GTR crowd) the problem I see is that for the last 50 years lotus has been making crappy cars (craftsmanship wise) so they must sell a new image and at $180K I don't know how they are going to be able to convince a Porsche buyer that a Lotus is better car, I can just hear them "just forget about our past, this Lotus is really, really good" it has taken Porsche and ferrari many decades to develop the reputation they have. Lotus is trying to do this in 5 years, good luck!! I don't think America will be voting for change this time around. to me the solution and I see little hints here and there is that Toyota buys lotus out...

P.S. Now, If there's a consolation, Chevy is selling Camaros for $45K so maybe they have the right idea.
Ditto in the $45K Camaro... what a yawner for $45K! I see as many Camaros every day as I do Honda Accords. And, if I wanted a car that looked like a '69 Z Id buy a '69 Z. This retro thing is driving me nuts with the Big 3. Barf. Learn how to design a freggin car, would ya?

As for Lotus building crappy cars, yeah they certainly wont win any build-integrity awards. My Esprit is the epitome of that. But, Ferrari and Lambo for many, many years also built incredibly sh!tty cars as well. Heck, maybe even sh!ttier than Lotus. Yet... its all good.

If Toyota bought Lotus and kept their hands basically off, that could be the best thing ever. We'd then have a parent company with unlimited resources behind us. Excellent!

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post #79 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 04:51 AM
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Let's look back ~18yrs. Lotus had the Esprit. Then this funky little "future Elise" show car appeared. How many people thought ole CC was rolling in his grave? Turns out it was the most successful car Lotus ever built. Fast forward to the Paris show 2010. Deja Vu!
I now have a reason to go to car shows next year so I can touch, feel, sit in these new bods. Maybe by the time I'm done with this, a little drool will be forming. Elise had me the instant I saw one. I like Evora but it does not compel me. Yes, it's one of the best looking cars on the road, NEXT TO MY ELISE! which I already own. Bring'm on!!!

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post #80 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 05:44 AM
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I think a big part of the new direction is to get away from the winers who populate forums like this one. I can sum up half the Lotus related posts on this site:

Boo Hoo, my Lotus is a relatively inexpensive, limited production hand built car sports car that isn't like my Japanese 100,000 unit a year car.

These days all car companies know how to build a decent handling car, powerful engines... Governments dictate many of the basic parameters of all new cars. Exotic, light, strong and expensive materials materials abound. Lotus needs to find a new sweet spot in the market. The gray market low weight hyper-cars like the Caterham and Atom have taken over much of the ground previously held by Lotus. Big dollar cars can cover the cost of exotic materials and build processes.

Lotus needs to change, to producecars appealing to a more diverse and larger market segments.

Want to support the existing style of Lotus cars. Get off your collective butts, sell your 2005 Elise and buy a new Elise! You only have 5 years left to do it.
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