Who is Happy with the Direction Lotus is leading us Towards? - Page 5 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #81 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 06:15 AM
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You could try credit unions. Some are around 4% right now.
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Could you give me more infos about it ?

A website or something else.

Is it for canadian customer too ?
4.19% through Chase. Not sure about Canada.

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post #82 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 06:19 AM
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As a businessman, I understand Lotus' strategy of evolution (in this case revolution) to survive, and I wish them well in their quest for recognition, success and profits. Lotus does face substantial headwinds given various well established players and highly competitive offerings in the high performance sports car and gran touring segments, changing consumer spending habits, a global economic environment that will remain choppy for years to come, and a company history of frequent near-death experiences.

As a consumer, I am not pleased with their product direction one bit, and it is likely that my '06 Exige will be my first and last Lotus unless a new Lotus model hits my personal "sweet spot" by providing design, performance, and value in one package. There are plenty of compelling offerings that deliver crazy levels of performance (like Rossion, Toniq, Atom, etc.) that will make my adrenaline flow as freely and car guy heart warm as my Exige has. I see a Rossion in my future.
Couldn't agree more. I too welcome new models and agree that Lotus should broaden their offering but it seems to me that the "Performance through lightweight " phylosophy was what was so right for our time (a greener, cleaner friendlier sports car) and was what was giving Lotus it's own identity. Now we are simply looking at a Lotus badge on essentially a Ferralamboporcha. Who needs 600 hp and 3500- 4000lbs of weight and how can something like that be looked at as a real sports car. Even Lamborghini is saying that from now on they will be working at producing lighter cars going away from top speed at all cost towards quickness, nimbleness...lightweight. Of course in their case at their price point they are looking at using carbon fiber as a means to achieve their weight reduction targets. It is sad to see that Lotus was way ahead of it's time with "Performance through lightweight" but has now decided that they should be just the same as the others.
Not only am I deeply disapointed as a real fan of what Lotus (as an Elise owner) used to stand for but I do not believe at all that the direction they are taking now will lead them to financial success. As a final note I really like the Evora (not the S model with the stupid rear disfuser) and would trade my Elise in for one if Lotus would come up with a light version (approx. 2500lbs) with a soft Targa top similar to what we have on the Elise now. Of course using the Lexus direct injection V6 would also be a real plus. I am now a fan of turbocharged or superchargeg engines (owned both before) because of the added weight and complexity, I prefer properly designed atmosheric engines (the 2ZZ engine is a jewel with over 100hp per liter).
Just my two cents...
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post #83 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 06:39 AM
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If Toyota bought Lotus and kept their hands basically off, that could be the best thing ever. We'd then have a parent company with unlimited resources behind us. Excellent!
I totally agree with this. Heck, since the future Lotuses look very Japanese, they might as well have a Japanese owner!!
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post #84 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:42 AM
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Lotus cannot stay in business only making cars that compete with Rossion and Atom. Lightness is great for performance but most people want more than a flimsy, noisy, rattle trap even if it drives great. There is no reason Lotus can't keep one model that is super light and make cars that appeal to a new market.
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post #85 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 12:36 PM
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Lotus cannot stay in business only making cars that compete with Rossion and Atom. Lightness is great for performance but most people want more than a flimsy, noisy, rattle trap even if it drives great. There is no reason Lotus can't keep one model that is super light and make cars that appeal to a new market.
True...BUT...are they keeping one model that holds true to 'simplify and add lightness'??

Studies show 100% of people die. Might as well have some fun.

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post #86 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 01:34 PM
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If Toyota bought Lotus and kept their hands basically off, that could be the best thing ever. We'd then have a parent company with unlimited resources behind us. Excellent!
What did I just read?
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If Toyota bought Lotus and kept their hands basically off, that could be the best thing ever. We'd then have a parent company with unlimited resources behind us. Excellent!
That's what I thought---BARF!
Go sit in the corner until you get your mind right!
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post #87 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 01:57 PM
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In an era, where the inclusion by customer demand and government, mandated systems that increased the weight of a vehicle, the only way to manage that weight is the use of materials that are not normal in the automotive industry. These materials, carbon fiber, aluminum, etc. increase manufacturing costs. We don't live in the '60s or '70s where safety, ergonomics, environmental, gas mileage and build quality were minimized. Lotus had to get a bumper exemption in order to sell the Elise in the USA, this is not how a company should operate. The times, they change, 1400 lb for an Elan in the '60s does not work for a car in the 21st century. The '70s Ferrari Dino weighed 2381lb, today the Italia weighs 3042.
Lotus is moving in the right direction, trying to minimize weight while producing cars to the demand of consumers and government regulations.
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post #88 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 06:41 PM
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...Dumping half a ton of weight into the Elise?

...
LOL

Sold Lotus, bought 911C4S. The Lotus didn't do too well in the snow.
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post #89 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 06:45 PM
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I saw +500 lbs. Last time I checked, that's 1/4 ton.

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post #90 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:13 PM
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I am mostly positive with everything I see. Different opinions for each car, but I did find it strange that the officers speak of the company, like its gonna comeback from something... Which assumes they are a tarnished brand at the moment, or simply not taken seriously. That kinda stings for us, as we kinda like this company the way it is, which is why we all have its products.

Our feelings as die-hards asside, Lotus is rebuilding lots of things, including an F1 team which costs $$$ and if they are gonna do that kind of thing, they need to be a little bigger car company to do so. Problem is, they have been here before. What the officers mean by "returning Lotus to its former glory" is bring Lotus back to just before it fell on its face, for making heavier "me too" cars.

Having said that my opinions are different for each car:

Esprit: Beautiful, but with the performance and price point of MANY other cars. Why pick a Lotus when a 458 Italia is almost the same thing at the same price?

Elan: FUKIN AWESOME, at that price its perfect. Makes a Porsche look like a joke. I hope Lotus sells a million of em. THIS car is unique and can dominate the 100k price point for a long time.

Elise: This new Elise was designed by marketing. This was the memo: "Dear Engineers, you will need to use all common parts from the other cars, and make look way less cool so it doesn't overshadow our other cars." For the price point though, it is still the coolest car BY FAR.

Elite: If ya like convertibles, its cool. My GF wants one, and will probably put her name on the list.

Estupido: Yeah the four door. This is garbage. Embarrassing. Sure is better looking than the Panemera though. Lotus will probably sell em.

Sold Lotus, bought 911C4S. The Lotus didn't do too well in the snow.
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post #91 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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To be accurate, you need to compare a 2011 Elise SC to a 2015 Elise.


Current Model
  • 220HP
  • $54,900 Base Price
  • Weighs 2041 LBS

Future Model
  • 319HP
  • $55,372.20 Base Price per Lotus (35K BP)
  • Will Weigh between 2300-2409 LBS. per Lotus

So you mean to tell me that for $472.20 more I get a 100 more HP's and all I'm sacrificing is only between 259-368 LBS????

1/2 a ton

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post #92 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:32 PM
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Which gives it a much better power-to-weight ratio. But it will still not feel as good in the handling area I bet.

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post #93 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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I am mostly positive with everything I see. Different opinions for each car, but I did find it strange that the officers speak of the company, like its gonna comeback from something... Which assumes they are a tarnished brand at the moment, or simply not taken seriously. That kinda stings for us, as we kinda like this company the way it is, which is why we all have its products.

Our feelings as die-hards asside, Lotus is rebuilding lots of things, including an F1 team which costs $$$ and if they are gonna do that kind of thing, they need to be a little bigger car company to do so. Problem is, they have been here before. What the officers mean by "returning Lotus to its former glory" is bring Lotus back to just before it fell on its face, for making heavier "me too" cars.

Having said that my opinions are different for each car:

Esprit: Beautiful, but with the performance and price point of MANY other cars. Why pick a Lotus when a 458 Italia is almost the same thing at the same price?

Elan: FUKIN AWESOME, at that price its perfect. Makes a Porsche look like a joke. I hope Lotus sells a million of em. THIS car is unique and can dominate the 100k price point for a long time.

Elise: This new Elise was designed by marketing. This was the memo: "Dear Engineers, you will need to use all common parts from the other cars, and make look way less cool so it doesn't overshadow our other cars." For the price point though, it is still the coolest car BY FAR.

Elite: If ya like convertibles, its cool. My GF wants one, and will probably put her name on the list.

Estupido: Yeah the four door. This is garbage. Embarrassing. Sure is better looking than the Panemera though. Lotus will probably sell em.
Regarding the Esprit, it's not gonna cost anywhere near a 458 and on top of that, go try and buy one. If you're not on some Ferrari list you'll have to pay the going market rate if you can find one which is $40K-$70K over window...this customer will be turned off by Ferrari and go with Lotus and that's not to say that there won't be idiot Lotus dealers who will try this same tactic but definitely not the norm.

I like the Eterne and looks much better than the Panamera and you're right, it would sell. It has to if Lotus wants to get into F1

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post #94 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Which gives it a much better power-to-weight ratio. But it will still not feel as good in the handling area I bet.
If it's using the same chassis as the Evora, I bet it handles just as great if not better but only time will tell. Have you driven the Evora? It weighs 3046 LBS w/276 HP and still handles great...imagine how the 2015 Elise with same chassis (I think) will handle with less weight and more power.

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post #95 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe View Post
To be accurate, you need to compare a 2011 Elise SC to a 2015 Elise.


Current Model
  • 220HP
  • $54,900 Base Price
  • Weighs 2041 LBS

Future Model
  • 319HP
  • $55,372.20 Base Price per Lotus (35K BP)
  • Will Weigh between 2300-2409 LBS. per Lotus

So you mean to tell me that for $472.20 more I get a 100 more HP's and all I'm sacrificing is only between 259-368 LBS????

1/2 a ton
It should be even more obvious to Lotus enthusiasts than to any other car enthusiasts... a car's performance is more than just HP/weight. My Exige S and my 2-Eleven have basically the same engine, chassis, suspension, and brakes... but the 2-Eleven is 400 pounds lighter and is far faster, nimbler, and exciting to drive.
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post #96 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:42 PM
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Do we know what the total planned sales volume for the new line will be? If it is a big increase in volume, will there be available capacity in the current facility? Do they plan to build all of these vehicles in Hethel or will these angular "beauties" be assembled in Malaysia as well?

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post #97 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Do we know what the total planned sales volume is for the "new line" will be? If it is a big increase in volume, does capacity exist in the current facility? Do they plan to build all of these vehicles in Hethel or will these angular beauties be assembled in Malaysia as well?
It's suppose to be between 6000-8000 cars world wide and since the 1st of the 5 cars is still at least 3 years out, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Lotus might be adding another facility in Hethel or somewhere else

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post #98 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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It should be even more obvious to Lotus enthusiasts than to any other car enthusiasts... a car's performance is more than just HP/weight. My Exige S and my 2-Eleven have basically the same engine, chassis, suspension, and brakes... but the 2-Eleven is 400 pounds lighter and is far faster, nimbler, and exciting to drive.
That is obvious but it's also obvious that Lotus will not be catering to this group and are going main stream. That said, an Evora is also exciting to drive, maybe not as exciting as a purpose built track car like the 2-Eleven or a street legal track car like the Exige but nonetheless, you can tell it's still a Lotus by the way it handles. If the Elise is indeed using the same chassis as the Evora, it goes without saying it will handle better since it will weigh less with more HP

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post #99 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 08:02 PM
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That is obvious but it's also obvious that Lotus will not be catering to this group and are going main stream. That said, an Evora is also exciting to drive, maybe not as exciting as a purpose built track car like the 2-Eleven or a street legal track car like the Exige but nonetheless, you can tell it's still a Lotus by the way it handles. If the Elise is indeed using the same chassis as the Evora, it goes without saying it will handle better since it will weigh less with more HP
So no more track oriented, street-legal Lotus? That would be a shame...
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post #100 of 149 (permalink) Old 10-02-2010, 08:05 PM
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One other question:

Where is the $ coming from to develop the new models and potentially expand capacity? I can't help but be a bit skeptical that most of the new models will make production.

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