Who is Happy with the Direction Lotus is leading us Towards? - Page 8 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #141 of 149 (permalink) Old 12-31-2010, 12:27 PM
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I've been pondering. Has Lotus announced or stated how much the new Elan and Elise will weigh? I've seen people throwing around 2400-2500 lbs. If we assume that to be true, that is quite comparable to other llightweight sports cars we know and love.

Like the Noble M400 and subsequent Rossion Q1, the Morgan Aero 8 and roadster... and if any high-performance sports car made its way under 2600 lbs, we would be drooling over it.

This is all based on a presumptuous , perhaps a tad arbitrary, weight figure, but if they keep weight around that area, I expect a vehicle that enthusiasts will love.

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post #142 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 01:30 PM
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I've been pondering. Has Lotus announced or stated how much the new Elan and Elise will weigh? I've seen people throwing around 2400-2500 lbs. If we assume that to be true, that is quite comparable to other llightweight sports cars we know and love.

Like the Noble M400 and subsequent Rossion Q1, the Morgan Aero 8 and roadster... and if any high-performance sports car made its way under 2600 lbs, we would be drooling over it.

This is all based on a presumptuous , perhaps a tad arbitrary, weight figure, but if they keep weight around that area, I expect a vehicle that enthusiasts will love.
Danny Bahar has said words to the effect that the cars need not be as light as the current generation of Elise/Exige - just lighter than the competition.
This is GREAT news since Alfa-Romeo is set to launch the new 4C in the next few years and it weighs only about 1900 lbs. So we can count on a lighter Elise based on Bahars' pledge.

In actuality he will surely weasle out of his statement by carefully selecting models he regards as competition for the Elise & you can bet it won't include the 4C.
The Elise seems on track to gain 500+ pounds of pork which can only make the car worse in terms of it's dynamic response. That is a HUGE percentage gain. I could understand 100lbs in the name of better ingress and accomodation for occupants but a 25% increase destroys the cars' biggest asset and most unique feature. It always blows my mind that as technology advances and fuel gets more expensive cars go the wrong way and become heavier.

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post #143 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 01:35 PM
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Unless the Alfa is made of unobtainium, I think the odds of it weighing less than 1900 pounds - and sold at any price that could be considered reasonable - are slim. Given what it will need to have in terms of safety equipment and creature comforts - unless they are also interested in selling 50 cars per year - and that Lotus had a safety waiver to even get the Elise on the road (and we probably won't see too many more of those), I'm guessing something more like 2400-2500 - and that would be a stretch.
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post #144 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 01:41 PM
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Unless the Alfa is made of unobtainium, I think the odds of it weighing less than 1900 pounds - and sold at any price that could be considered reasonable - are slim. Given what it will need to have in terms of safety equipment and creature comforts - unless they are also interested in selling 50 cars per year - and that Lotus had a safety waiver to even get the Elise on the road (and we probably won't see too many more of those), I'm guessing something more like 2400-2500 - and that would be a stretch.

Alfa Romeo 4C news - BBC Top Gear

Given the buzz this car has created I think production is likely.

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post #145 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 03:48 PM
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Lotus New Business Strategy will Divide the Potential Consumer Base

Let's face it, Proton purchased a niche auto manufacture that built focused vehicles for a rather limited consumer base. That is not a terribly profitable business model. Sadly, it is a model that has led to the demise of some great brands in recent years. TVR, rest in peace.

After years of loss, breaking even and minimal gains, it is understandable that there would be a desire within Proton to broaden the brand. Unfortunately, the current management team has not left a model in the line that firmly embraces the original Lotus philosophy. It is an indisputable fact that the core Louts brand values have been severely diluted with the adoption of this current strategy.

I am confident that, with clear and appropriate visionary direction, the Lotus engineering team would deliver vehicles with the Chapman core values intact able to generate greater sales volume. The new management team do not appear to have experience creating production vehicles with limited resources. The last (raw and rattly, ) 10% of the NVH is the most costly to eradicate. No easy solutions here. Time, money and weight.

Lotus will be unable to produce cars with the "refinement" necessary to compete with Porsche, Ferrari etc. without a massive influx of cash. The bid for loans has now failed twice. The investment community knows a good bet when they see it.

The second biggest fail (other than onerous weight gain) is the design language of the new product line. The new design language is quite simply weak by any emotional or professional assessment. Compared to a broad cross section of todays automotive designers abilities, these are very disappointing. The designs are; not evocative, inelegant, fussy, derivative (late 80s early 90s) and offer far too little differentiation from each other. 15 years from now these designs will look very dated. An S1 or S2 Elise / Exige / 340R will both proudly stand up to the test of time.

Excellent designs would keep the brand exotic beyond its station. Emotionally engaging designs would also make up for the limitations inherent with low volume manufacturing.

All is not lost! There is hope! With the recent acquisition of Caterham cars, it sounds as if the new owners would like to broaden the line with more "usable" extreme sports cars for true automotive enthusiasts. Lotus will be leaving a massive void in the market. The void will be filled by specialists that value the driving experience. True enthusiasts will migrate away from Lotus slowly and inexorably.

Change is good and necessary for growth...
It's just a different market segment and a different consumer.

Apologies for the rant.
Terribly sad to see this turn of events unfold.

Alan

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post #146 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-17-2011, 04:58 PM
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Alfa Romeo 4C news - BBC Top Gear

Given the buzz this car has created I think production is likely.
As long as...the ones bound for US are not made at the Toluca plant and will not sold through Chrysler dealerships. You have no idea what the early Fiat 500 adopters went through...


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post #147 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 06:24 AM
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I keep reading comments about the new Exige but I have seen nothing official. Has anything actually been said about production of a new Exige? I was under the impression that the Exige was no longer going to be produced and the Élan was going to replace it? I also read an article saying the US price would be arond $75K for a new Élan which puts it in line with a new Exige.

I would imagine that if the Exige was still an option it would have been introduced with the other new cars.

I may be totally off here, but would love to have know for sure!
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post #148 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 10:35 AM
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I keep reading comments about the new Exige but I have seen nothing official. Has anything actually been said about production of a new Exige? I was under the impression that the Exige was no longer going to be produced and the Élan was going to replace it? I also read an article saying the US price would be arond $75K for a new Élan which puts it in line with a new Exige.

I would imagine that if the Exige was still an option it would have been introduced with the other new cars.

I may be totally off here, but would love to have know for sure!
danny has a plan
it keeps changing
investors have plans
engineering faces reality of budget and schedule
governing bodies require certifications
there are out sourced vendors for production

somewhere between the top of the list and the bottom of the list is the "know for sure" part

the ONLY thing we know for sure is that the Esprit was "a good bit done" prior to danny.... how much of that esprit is retained? how much starting over, again, on the esprit? how to sell a rebodied evora for more? and we haven't even got to building a true new car yet...

danny's plan, in concept, is really nothing bad - its the execution part that i am very skeptical of. the styling is weak, the engineering is old, and price is high... what is compelling? i 'would imagine' lotus 'gets it' and hence the 'changing plans' are a response to market reaction. "what" that response will be is anyone's guess. and that assuming "danny lotus" survives long enough to execute the response...

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post #149 of 149 (permalink) Old 05-18-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by dpaine View Post
I keep reading comments about the new Exige but I have seen nothing official. Has anything actually been said about production of a new Exige? I was under the impression that the Exige was no longer going to be produced and the Élan was going to replace it? I also read an article saying the US price would be arond $75K for a new Élan which puts it in line with a new Exige.

I would imagine that if the Exige was still an option it would have been introduced with the other new cars.

I may be totally off here, but would love to have know for sure!

At this point Lotus hasn't shared very much. I was looking out for the new Exige as well. As I understand it, the new Elan has been put on the backburner .. so we're still several years out on that one. The rest (to follow) is pure speculation on my part: the new Exige won't happen; in its place Lotus will bump up the launch of the new Elise (which will probably evolve quite a bit from the first go around in Paris). Now that the Alfa 4C is on the radar, Lotus is going to have to introduce a product against it post haste or they'll end up having their lunch eaten. Lotus needs to figure out how to make money on the lower end of the price range. The high-end for Lotus is not going to pay the bills (I don't think)
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