:: Round 4 - Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca (105db!!) - June 29/30 :: - Page 4 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #61 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 09:00 AM
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Is there a 35?

Is Friday 92 db or 105 db?

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post #62 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 09:06 AM
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Race Entries:

6 - Open
16 - Production
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2 - Evora

Is there a 35?

Is Friday 92 db or 105 db?
Hi Rob,

Won't 34 cars make it crowded enough for you? Clean laps will be at a premium.

105 db for Friday.

Look forward to seeing your "monster" run.

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post #63 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 09:37 AM
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34 Lotus is an amazing count. The only time I've raced with a field that large was shifter Karts (Nationals in Vegas) and NASA TT at Infineon with 60+ cars (that was a little excessive but good practice for situational awareness).

Gonna buy a single session from Aaron on Friday to see if I make sound.

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post #64 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 10:08 AM
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Hi Rob,

Won't 34 cars make it crowded enough for you? Clean laps will be at a premium.

105 db for Friday.

Look forward to seeing your "monster" run.
I wasn't a math major but Rob's totals look to be closer to 31 cars

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post #65 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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I wasn't a math major but Rob's totals look to be closer to 31 cars
three are time attack which are probably not counted in that total...

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post #66 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 12:23 PM
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Yes, if you have specifically rented a garage from Aaron (Speed Ventures) for Friday.

Garage rentals thru Lotus Cup only covers Saturday and Sunday usage.
Thanks Jack!

The Godfather knows all the answers.

See you guys Friday!

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post #67 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 12:33 PM
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I wasn't a math major but Rob's totals look to be closer to 31 cars
You are a stickler for detail ..... just like all you plastic guys.....

Looks like Robbie answered you query .... Rob A. is talking about the Race grid.

I think we will have 34 cars for our practice sessions.

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post #68 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 03:53 PM
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You are a stickler for detail ..... just like all you plastic guys.....

Looks like Robbie answered you query .... Rob A. is talking about the Race grid.

I think we will have 34 cars for our practice sessions.
34 cars per session looks like a traffic jam......

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post #69 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:03 PM
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34 cars per session looks like a traffic jam......
Normally yes, but luckily we are staged by lap time even for practice, so it's not nearly as bad as a normal HPDE would be with that many cars. Sears Pointless 2013 (LeMons) had 170+ cars. 34 is nothing.

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post #70 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 04:42 PM
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Let's say we get sent out at 2 second intervals. When the last car gets sent, the first car will have left the pits 66 seconds ago. When the first car crosses start/finish, they'll be on their first hot lap, the slowest car still on their warm up lap.

If the sum the fastest car's warm up lap plus first hot lap is less than the slowest car's warm up lap plus 66 seconds, the lead car catches the slowest car on the first hot lap.

The best way postpone the front of the pack catching the back is to do one or both of the following:

1) Send the cars out closer together

2) The lead car should run a slow warm-up lap (taking care to warm the engine, tires, and brakes properly) so as to not spread out the gap even further.

...just my thoughts on trying to get everyone as many clean laps as possible
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post #71 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:08 PM
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Doesn't the pack go out together as a whole for practice or am I remembering things incorrectly? If the faster cars are up front, they are moving away and will eventually lap the slower cars, but only after the lap differential is consumed.

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post #72 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 06:32 PM
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Doesn't the pack go out together as a whole for practice or am I remembering things incorrectly? If the faster cars are up front, they are moving away and will eventually lap the slower cars, but only after the lap differential is consumed.
You're right, but with 34 cars the time from the last car to the first car will be equal to the first car's lap time minus 33 times the average spacing.

If the average spacing grows to 3 seconds during the warm up lap (due to cars naturally leaving room, slower cars have slower warm up laps, etc), then the string of cars will be 33 * 3 or 99 seconds long from head to tail... which is longer than the average lap time for most of the cars in last year's race (fastest lap last year was 95 seconds).

In other words, the lead car catches the back of the pack during the first hot lap... and cars start to stack up behind quickly. The back of the pack is getting passed by a string of the fastest cars on the beginning of their first hot lap as well.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that... but it does decrease the chances that people will get relatively clean laps during practice.
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post #73 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:02 PM
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i'd educated-but-nonetheless-wild guess the fastest cars at about 100s, slowest cars at about 110s.

If you leave the pits spaced at 2s (good luck with that), like you said the lead car is 68s ahead of the slow car, and gaining at 10s a lap. He's actually gaining at 12-15s for the first lap because the tail car is s.l.o.w. while the lead car has warmed up already. Also the motorcycle entrance to the track is VERY slow. So anyway on lap 1 the lead car is 68s ahead, or in other words 32s behind. On the first lap he picks up 15s and then he gets 1 clean lap before catching the tail of the pack.

In reality the gap is going to be more like 4s between cars and the lead car will catch the tail of the group in lap 1.

I like your idea #2. out lap is a "pace lap". no passing and let the lead car set approx a 1:10 pace. That will bunch everyone up and then let things string out like it would in a race restart. It's worth a try for sure.
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post #74 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:25 PM Thread Starter
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we are having a seminar on traffic management to "help" you during a packed session... having qualified with 80 cars on track for the 25hr, its a difficult task but a clean lap is possible.

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post #75 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 08:01 PM
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we are having a seminar on traffic management to "help" you during a packed session... having qualified with 80 cars on track for the 25hr, its a difficult task but a clean lap is possible.
I vote that every session be deemed a "race." We all line up according to times and do a warm up lap to get tires hot, then throw a green flag ... and lets GO!
Many clean laps in a race.
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post #76 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 05:51 AM
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I vote that every session be deemed a "race." We all line up according to times and do a warm up lap to get tires hot, then throw a green flag ... and lets GO!
Many clean laps in a race.
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I love you Eddie .... that's the way it has always supposed to have been for all our events' practice/quali sessions save the first one of the day.

Problem has been that it requires discipline -- 1) everyone must show up for practice pre-grid early so an orderly release can be arranged (no late entries); 2) you need every car to exhibit 1st lap discipline, i.e., no first lap passing, appropriate speed to establish an appropriate gap, etc.

BTW, any major "offs"/gravel trap incidents during a session will basically end the sessions and/or result in a loss of practice time for everyone from future sessions, as per SV policy.

Glad Robbie is going over this -- probably most important for getting a clean lap or two, especially during quali.

It will be interesting.

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post #77 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 05:58 AM
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i'd educated-but-nonetheless-wild guess the fastest cars at about 100s, slowest cars at about 110s.

If you leave the pits spaced at 2s (good luck with that), like you said the lead car is 68s ahead of the slow car, and gaining at 10s a lap. He's actually gaining at 12-15s for the first lap because the tail car is s.l.o.w. while the lead car has warmed up already. Also the motorcycle entrance to the track is VERY slow. So anyway on lap 1 the lead car is 68s ahead, or in other words 32s behind. On the first lap he picks up 15s and then he gets 1 clean lap before catching the tail of the pack.

In reality the gap is going to be more like 4s between cars and the lead car will catch the tail of the group in lap 1.

I like your idea #2. out lap is a "pace lap". no passing and let the lead car set approx a 1:10 pace. That will bunch everyone up and then let things string out like it would in a race restart. It's worth a try for sure.
Frank,

That has been suggested.

FYI, the range of times at last year's event, once everyone got up to speed, was ~95 to 115 seconds.

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post #78 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 03:36 PM
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Hey guys and gals. One bummed out racer left behind, waiting to hear to news about the day and the Sat race (if there was one). have fun. be safe. say hi to LS for me.

Sometimes you have to go in circles to move forward.
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post #79 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 06:56 PM
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Hey guys and gals. One bummed out racer left behind, waiting to hear to news about the day and the Sat race (if there was one). have fun. be safe. say hi to LS for me.
Right there with you, I didn't make it either.

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post #80 of 120 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 09:41 PM
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It was GOOD. Lots of great battles throughout the race. Packed field hope we get this way for every race.
Open - Kevin "chrome" Marshall
Evora - DMAC
Cup - Frank Cusak
211 - Scott Gibson
Production-BB
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