Lotus oil cooler line recall is being EXPANDED - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 10:58 AM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
I checked cams at 30k, 36k and again at 37k when I did the lifter bolts. All look great. I dont go onto the 2nd cam until the car is above 170 (but I have no idea what the oil is at)
I do preventative maintenance but Im reluctant to change systems that are working if I dont need more performance. In this case Im on the fence.
Obviously sorting the hoses is a must.

It looks like they keep the original hose, cut off the fittings and put longer ones on. Is this right or is the hose itself a risk too and the whole lot comes out?

Can you buy the new fittings so that I can do it myself?

Do I even need an oil cooler if its not going on a track and its NA?
not-a-number is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 11:27 AM
He's on fire!
 
jds62f's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by not-a-number View Post
I checked cams at 30k, 36k and again at 37k when I did the lifter bolts. All look great. I dont go onto the 2nd cam until the car is above 170 (but I have no idea what the oil is at)
I do preventative maintenance but Im reluctant to change systems that are working if I dont need more performance. In this case Im on the fence.
Obviously sorting the hoses is a must.

It looks like they keep the original hose, cut off the fittings and put longer ones on. Is this right or is the hose itself a risk too and the whole lot comes out?

Can you buy the new fittings so that I can do it myself?

Do I even need an oil cooler if its not going on a track and its NA?
Go back and read post #24 in this thread. If you ever plan to sell the car, its in your best interest to have this done in case a future buyer tries to use "stock oil cooler lines not fixed" as leverage. What you do to address the oil temperature beyond this, is more of a personal choice with little impact on selling price (IMO).

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
jds62f is online now  
post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 12:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 442
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by not-a-number View Post
I checked cams at 30k, 36k and again at 37k when I did the lifter bolts. All look great. I dont go onto the 2nd cam until the car is above 170 (but I have no idea what the oil is at)

...

Do I even need an oil cooler if its not going on a track and its NA?
The engine coolant above 170F doesn't track to a particularly high oil temp, sad to say. I put temp and press gauges on my Elise when I put the oil-to-water cooler in. I've been looking for an oil temp above 170F (80 C) before cam switchover, and that typically requires another ~5 min of runtime after water hits 180 F.

If your warm up rate isn't fast enough, you might well have a bad thermostat if you've never changed it.

I already addressed the lack of need for a cooler for a street only NA Elise, but we do have a lot of people driving around that way right now. I would have gone that route myself but I'm expecting to track the car now and again.
steelypip is offline  
 
post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 12:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,107
Quote:
Originally Posted by not-a-number View Post
I checked cams at 30k, 36k and again at 37k when I did the lifter bolts. All look great. I dont go onto the 2nd cam until the car is above 170 (but I have no idea what the oil is at)
I do preventative maintenance but Im reluctant to change systems that are working if I dont need more performance. In this case Im on the fence.
Obviously sorting the hoses is a must.

It looks like they keep the original hose, cut off the fittings and put longer ones on. Is this right or is the hose itself a risk too and the whole lot comes out?

Can you buy the new fittings so that I can do it myself?

Do I even need an oil cooler if its not going on a track and its NA?
Damn, bring it to the dealer they will do it for free, and be responsible for it

Again, read the thread i linked, 150 bucks, warmer oil, barely more work than changing your oil

170 degrees is not hot enough for cam change, more like 185
exigegus is offline  
post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 06:36 PM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelypip View Post
I did a fair bit of research before deciding just what to do about this.

If you street drive in North America and never do track days, you're probably fine just taking the oil coolers entirely out of circuit. Toyota didn't supply any oil cooler on US market 2ZZ-GE equipped cars, all of which are a lot bigger and heavier (thus more engine load) than a Lotus. You will need to buy one part, which is the threaded oil filter nipple that replaces the cooler adapter.

The biggest hassle to this job is getting all the oil out of the cooler loop before you cap the lines. I made quite a mess blowing compressed air through the cooler lines to empty things out.

My own personal observation (lying on a creeper under the running engine on ramps during a leak test) was that the oil warms up quite quickly if left to its own devices - tested with the high tech hand-on-filter measuring system.

The next step up the scale is to use an oil to water cooler, like both Toyota and Lotus did on their UK/EU and Australia offerings. It's compact, lightweight, made of stainless steel, and will heat the cold oil as well as cool the hot oil. Your 2ZZ Elige came with the required hoses for the factory cooler - just pop the aluminum U-tube out, pop the cooler on, and call it done. Standard list price for a new cooler is ~$500 if you can find one. The good news is that the cooler from a '90-93 Celica GT or '93-99 Camry (probably among others) can be adapted to fit, which was the route I went as I had a '92 Celica GT engine sitting around.

Next step past that is probably to go to one of the OE coolers and a better thermostatic sandwich plate. The problem I see with the sandwich plate design Lotus used is that it does not actually stop oil flow through the coolers when the engine is cold - just forces flow through the coolers when the oil is hot. There are better ways to do this. There were apparently also sometimes assembly quality problem with the sandwich plate Lotus used as well.

You can go to one of the nifty Laminova coolers, but they really aren't needed for normally aspirated street use.
Sorry I completely missed this comment. I like the idea of the OEM oil to water cooler. Since Im not driving on the track or going anywhere too hot it should be good. Ill run a thermocouple on the sump and see what its doing.

What size plugs do I need for the old lines?
not-a-number is offline  
post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
Damn, bring it to the dealer they will do it for free, and be responsible for it

Again, read the thread i linked, 150 bucks, warmer oil, barely more work than changing your oil

170 degrees is not hot enough for cam change, more like 185
Will they do it for free though? Its well out of warranty.
not-a-number is offline  
post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 06:53 PM
The Enforcer
 
oldmansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 6,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by not-a-number View Post
Will they do it for free though? Its well out of warranty.
Recalls don't need to fall into a warranty period.

Limitation of the age of car is 15 years (page 13).

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...619-v2-tag.pdf

San
Harix likes this.

#8 Metric Allen Key, Plastic Carpet Buttons, Never Been on Fire
oldmansan is offline  
post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-06-2019, 07:25 PM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
Recalls don't need to fall into a warranty period.

Limitation of the age of car is 15 years (page 13).

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.do...619-v2-tag.pdf

San
Thanks this is good to know.
not-a-number is offline  
post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 09:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 442
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by not-a-number View Post
Sorry I completely missed this comment. I like the idea of the OEM oil to water cooler. Since Im not driving on the track or going anywhere too hot it should be good. Ill run a thermocouple on the sump and see what its doing.

What size plugs do I need for the old lines?
I'll upload some pics of what I did with the OEM cooler to the great oil cooler thread so they're in the right place to be easily googled.

As for a thermocouple, if you REALLY want to know what's going on, stick the thermocouple to the center bottom of the oil filter - that gives you oil temperature from the oil pump outlet. This matters because the oil doesn't actually circulate all that well in the pan unless you're cornering hard (even less well in a gated pan), and (because of the thermal viscosity effects) the hottest oil makes it back to the pump inlet quickest. Also, if you think about it empirically, you care about the oil about to enter the engine much more than the oil in the bottom of the pan that may or may not be going anywhere soon.

The NACA ducts, side scoops, and lid openings mean there's a pretty good amount of air moving over the oil pan at speed - it does passively cool some, which can be observed with a hot engine sitting still versus driving if you have a pan oil temp pickup.

That said, I'm using the bottom-of-the-pan pickup for the gauge thermistor. I know that this is slower to warm up than the supplied oil is, but there is an essential relation. I might well put a thermocouple on the oil filter just to see what the warm up time constant is between the two points.

I didn't use threaded plugs on the lines at all - I cut a couple of pieces of wine bottle cork to about the right shape and then zip tied them into the fittings, then zip tied the fittings up out of the way (one through the engine mount, one onto a water hose, IIRC. Yes, they'll probably drip a tiny bit briefly, but then so have some other things under there.
steelypip is offline  
post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:29 PM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
I have a heat exchanger on the way. I could move a cooler to the back but since its a daily driver I dont have a lot of time to work on it. Step after this will be to replace the radiator.

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/p...it-2zz-ge-all/

To confirm. Is the sandwich plate with thermostat completely removed? Then theres a fitting in the block to replace that looks like comes with this kit (or maybe you only do that to delete the sandwich plate).
Coolant hoses are hopefully already there.

What size plugs do I need for the old oil lines? Ive read through a bunch of threads and im pretty sure its a 5/8 Male Coned JIC?

Something like this?
https://www.advancedfluidsolutions.c...bsp-6062-p.asp
not-a-number is offline  
post #51 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 03:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,107
THe old sandwich plate would be removed

THe fittings are 5/8 BSP, not JIC,

I 'think' the fittings in the stock thermostat housing are 5/8x5/8 so I 'think' you already own what you need. Just screw the two hoses onto one fitting so they are connected to each other

If you felt ambitious it would be great to get oil warm up time measurements for this setup for the thread I linked above. If you have one of those infrared thermometers, that is all you need
aimed at a consistent point on the pan is pretty repeatable. I just scratched the numbers on paper and converted them in a spreadsheet to the graph. Straight idle the whole time for consistency.

I am very curious about this for this setup. Because it runs off of the heater circuit it might have the fastest warmup of any system

PM me if you have any interest or questions
exigegus is offline  
post #52 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 06:41 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 442
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by exigegus View Post
I am very curious about this for this setup. Because it runs off of the heater circuit it might have the fastest warmup of any system
With the water to oil cooler it's all about the water thermostat on the engine. I don't have times yet, but what I've seen is that pan temperature lags behind water temperature by 2-5 minutes, and it does seem to be mostly a time constant, rather than a rate constant.

The other side of this is that if you warm the water jacket up more quickly, you get the supplied oil hot sooner.

Remember that the pan is the return/sump, and the sender isn't all that close to the pump pickup, so I'm not directly measuring supply temperature at the moment, which means I can't really tell how much oil preheat I'm getting or what the actual warm up rate is. I'll see if I can get a thermocouple stuck on the cooler when I do an oil change in a few weeks.

I suspect that a heater bypass valve in the engine bay would help with quicker warm ups just because of reduced coolant volume being heated - there's a noticeable difference in warm up rate on my '92 Celica with the heater valve closed versus open even if no air is flowing over the heater core. I just looked at the diagrams for the 00-05 Celica and the heater is constant flow (no cutoff valve) as with the Elige. The S engine obviously doesn't care about constant flow in the heater circuit, but I wouldn't make the same assumption about the ZZ engine.
steelypip is offline  
post #53 of 54 (permalink) Old 05-11-2019, 07:23 PM
Registered User
 
not-a-number's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Huntington Beach
Posts: 100
I did the conversion and have put a writeup in here.

https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f16...2/#post5946622

It warms up a lot quicker and stabilizes at a higher temp. Not sure on water temp while driving yet.
I will be doing the radiator next anyway.

Heres a grave of warmup for both Dual cooler and heat exchanger seup.


Last edited by not-a-number; 05-11-2019 at 07:35 PM.
not-a-number is offline  
post #54 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-16-2019, 12:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift4 View Post
Looks like there is another updated recall, to include Exige S.

NHTSA Vehicle Safety Recalls
Recall Number
14V280000

Recall Date
05/27/2014


Component

ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
Summary
Lotus Cars USA, Inc. (Lotus) is recalling certain model year 2008-2011 Elise and Exige vehicles manufactured from November 2007 to July 2011, and 2011 Evora vehicles manufactured September 2010 through September 2011. The oil cooler hose may detach from its fitting.

Consequence
A detached oil hose could spray oil on a tire, increasing the risk of a crash, or it could spray oil throughout the engine compartment, increasing the risk of a fire.

What Owners Should Do
Lotus will notify owners, and dealers will replace the oil cooler hose fittings on the Elise and Exige vehicles and will replace the oil cooler hose assemblies on the Evora vehicles, free of charge. The manufacturer has not yet provided a notification schedule. Owners may contact Lotus at 1-800-245-6887. Lotus' number for this recall is 201401R (Elise/Exige), and 2014/02R (Evora). Note: This recall is an expansion of recalls 11V-510 and 13V-041.
my 2014 Evora had a coupler go bad in the passenger side oil line. all i see was a puddle of oil in the garage after a short drive. lotus did not advise me to drive it 69 miles to their shop. Roll back time
robbdom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Official Recalls

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome