Oil line recall - Page 5 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #81 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 02:44 PM
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Nothing you've said indicates that they WON'T pay for it, either. The dealer's service manager was the one who okayed the aftermarket oil line installation at their shop. He's gone to bat for me with Lotus in the past and has made good on a few things they've screwed up as well.
I'm also not the one saying "I expect" Lotus to pay for them...you have the burden of proof here Wish you luck on that front. A dealer on your side certainly helps. It just stands to reason that a recall done for safety reasons would require Lotus-approved parts unless perhaps they assume no liability for what happens to your car.
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post #82 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 02:50 PM
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I think my preference would be new fittings on old hoses, if possible, as that would minimize how much the dealer messes with my car.

Frankly, I'm concerned about how much damage will be done during the "solution".

But I agree that Lotus will take a position of "inspecting" the fittings and then, if there is no obvious oil, saying no repairs are needed.


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post #83 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:07 PM
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I think my preference would be new fittings on old hoses, if possible, as that would minimize how much the dealer messes with my car.
The existing hoses didn't look too good compared to the new Aeroquip lines supplied by RLS. The tech noticed that there appeared to be some degradation of the rubber. He also noted that it appeared that oil was weeping at the oil cooler fittings - the same thing that was found at one of my engine compartment fittings.

As for rough handling by the dealer, I trust Roman (the tech at Lotus of Atlanta), as he's always been very careful with my car.

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post #84 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:08 PM
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I'm also not the one saying "I expect" Lotus to pay for them...you have the burden of proof here Wish you luck on that front. A dealer on your side certainly helps. It just stands to reason that a recall done for safety reasons would require Lotus-approved parts unless perhaps they assume no liability for what happens to your car.
Time will tell - wich me luck!

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post #85 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:13 PM
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there is no doubt the aftermarket stuff is higher quality. The question is whether or not the stock lines need replacement. These are not high pressure lines and unless people can prove that the material is incompatible for its intended application, I would not bother to change them. If it make you feel better to replace them, go ahead. I just don't expect it to be part of the fix because all evidence point to the fact that the lines are fine, and its the crimp that sucks.

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post #86 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:14 PM
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Well the question in my mind is whether the defect is a result of poor installation or poor fittings as well. If it's the former, ChrisH figured out an appropriate way to test the crimps on the hoses (something about their diameter) to determine whether they were installed correctly.

You can see what I'm getting at here. Some people's lines will be reliable and like you, I'd rather not have the dealer touch them if they will survive. Whether the dealer can accurately determine that, I don't know.
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post #87 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:18 PM
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I also think the diameter check seems like a sound concept.

I used to have faith in my local tech, but he quit the dealer and opened his own non-Lotus shop. I'm not so sure about his replacement. Oh, well....

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post #88 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:30 PM
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I don't think that Lotus offers only the fittings as of this writing, but that's not to say that they won't in the future. Somehow, I doubt that this or crimping of the existing fittings will be the official fix, as this leaves too much up to the person doing the fix to ensure that it's done correctly. I would trust the tech less with this procedure than I would just replacing the hose assemblies.

Also, has the hose end been damaged or suffered degradation due to the failure? This might vary from car to car, so I would think that Lotus would be reluctant to take the chance.

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post #89 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-08-2011, 03:33 PM
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Don't get me wrong. I would love to have the whole assembly replaced and be done with it.

I am just hoping to come out of this little adventure better off than when I went in.

Maybe, I'm still stinging a bit from buying an intake cam....

Like lots of others have.

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post #90 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-09-2011, 02:33 PM
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I spent ten years doing a complete tear down/rebuild of a '69 Lotus Elan, during which time I had to fix many of the hidden design flaws. Water pump fixes, CV joints instead of rubber donuts, and numerous others were left by the folks at Lotus for future owners to figure out.

Years later, I find that my Elise has some design/execution problems as well. This isn't a big surprise to a seasoned Lotus owner, but I imagine that younger owners who cut their teeth on Hondas, Toyotas, and the like find it disconcerting. Stuff like this happens on low volume semi-exotics like Lotus, as the designs push the envelope more than the average high-volume grocery getter and don't get tested to the same extent before production.

Bottom line is that it's just part of the Lotus ownership experience. You either accept it for what it is or move on.

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post #91 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-09-2011, 02:59 PM
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I spent ten years doing a complete tear down/rebuild of a '69 Lotus Elan, during which time I had to fix many of the hidden design flaws. Water pump fixes, CV joints instead of rubber donuts, and numerous others were left by the folks at Lotus for future owners to figure out.

Years later, I find that my Elise has some design/execution problems as well. This isn't a big surprise to a seasoned Lotus owner, but I imagine that younger owners who cut their teeth on Hondas, Toyotas, and the like find it disconcerting. Stuff like this happens on low volume semi-exotics like Lotus, as the designs push the envelope more than the average high-volume grocery getter and don't get tested to the same extent before production.

Bottom line is that it's just part of the Lotus ownership experience. You either accept it for what it is or move on.
Well stated!

I love the car. It is some of Lotus' policies that bug me.

Also, the old argument of expecting low cost solutions, since the car is low cost, is a little harder when they cost what they do now. I know Lotus got caught in some currency shifts when the Elise first came in and that did get them off on the wrong foot.

Still love the car....

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post #92 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-10-2011, 10:03 AM
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Anyone whos taken their car to a dealer got an update?

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post #93 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-10-2011, 01:45 PM
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I'm picking up my car after having the oil lines replaced tomorrow, so I'll update when I get it back.

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post #94 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 12:44 PM
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Friends, I read in the service manual that the clam comes off to replace the lines. Will that be necessary for this recall?

Thanks.

Jeff
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post #95 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 01:49 PM
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Friends, I read in the service manual that the clam comes off to replace the lines. Will that be necessary for this recall?

Thanks.

Jeff
Again, usually the lines are fine. The info you seek is probably here or on another thread.

I would guess the ends can be done with clam in situ, but not the lines.

It may matter if car is Elise vs. Exige.....

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post #96 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-12-2011, 01:59 PM
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So are dealers now doing the fixes?

I was told by a person working at my local dealership (Galpin) that they've yet to work out how they will be handling the situation.

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post #97 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:25 AM
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So are dealers now doing the fixes?

I was told by a person working at my local dealership (Galpin) that they've yet to work out how they will be handling the situation.
Not yet, but I went ahead and had my lines replaced, as one of the fittings had started to leak. I hated to spend the money, but didn't want to blow out the leaking line and lose my engine. I figure that since the dealer found my leak and told me about it, I would have a hard time getting Lotus to pay for an engine if the line blew out after notification.

The dealer here in Atlanta said that they didn't have details yet on how Lotus will be handling the recall, so I had them take numerous photos documenting my line replacement. They found evidence that oil was weeping at more than one of my fittings, so I had them bundle up the hoses in a plastic bag and pack them in a box. I'm keeping them as evidence in case I get in a squabble with Lotus on reimbursement.

I did use RLS lines, which use barbed fittings with Oetiker clamps and Aeroquip hoses. The tech at Lotus of Atlanta was impressed with them and didn't have any problems with the installation. I also replaced the radiator with one from Wizard Cooling at the same time. Turns out it's thicker than the OEM unit and requires disconnecting the A/C lines to the condenser to install it, as the upper part of the crash structure that holds the oil coolers has to be lift out of place to insert the radiator.

Attached are a few cell phone photos (sorry for the poor quality):

Wizard vs. stock radiator thickness
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Wizard installed (required temporary removal of upper housing to install)
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Leaking fitting (see oil stains)
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New fitting at oil cooler
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New fittings at engine
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post #98 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 08:07 PM
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Cool, thanks for posting pictures tmr.

Could you possibly tell us a range of how much it cost for them to do the labor on this? We're all curious as to how Lotus is going to handle the situation. If the labor was really expensive we'll get a good idea on how they are going to handle the rest of them...
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post #99 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-14-2011, 06:05 PM
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Could you possibly tell us a range of how much it cost for them to do the labor on this? We're all curious as to how Lotus is going to handle the situation. If the labor was really expensive we'll get a good idea on how they are going to handle the rest of them...
The dealer quoted (8) hours to change the lines and (10) hours to change the radiator, with a (2) hours deduct if both tasks done concurrently. My radiator wound up taking a few more hours due to having to disconnect the A/C lines and other tasks because the Wizard unit was larger than the stock unit. My lineset cost went up because of the new L/H oil cooler required.

I negotiated the hourly rate and got a discount from a 15% off coupon they prevously emailed. I also had the A/C t-stat upgraded to the 2007+ electronic unit, since it was easy to access. They also checked out my blower motor, which functions fine due to the car only seeing rain once and having the recall for the drain holes done early on.

All in all, the total was expensive, but fair. Again, I wanted to fix the weak links while the front clam was off, so the dealer worked with me to minimize my cost.

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post #100 of 1102 (permalink) Old 11-15-2011, 08:39 PM
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damn not sure if i should go to lotus, i'm a 2nd hand owner

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