New 6UL race wheels @ 949 Racing - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 04:34 PM
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I'd be interested in a light-weight forged set (15,16 or 16,17 combo) in the $1500 range.

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post #22 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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I'd be interested in a light-weight forged set (15,16 or 16,17 combo) in the $1500 range.
Not doing forged now, sorry. The subject of this thread is LP cast T6.
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post #23 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:10 PM
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I think you guys should consider 16/17 sets...15/17 is too unconventional and even with taller profile tires, the rake may be too much for a street driven car.

Seems people either want 15/16 (stock brakes, maintain smaller rolling diameter for better gearing) or 16/17 (clears larger AP brakes)

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post #24 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 949Racing View Post
We are beginning development for all new Lotus specific race fitments scheduled to be released towards the end of this year. These would be brand new purpose built wheels, not a revision of a current wheel. Style exactly like current 6UL seen below. We would like to get your feedback for these fitments. Send us an email through the 949 Racing website if you have any questions or suggestions.


mostly interested in 15/16, which I'm currently running due to wider range of tire choices, but would also be interested in 16/17.

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post #25 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 6i9 View Post
I think you guys should consider 16/17 sets...15/17 is too unconventional and even with taller profile tires, the rake may be too much for a street driven car.

Seems people either want 15/16 (stock brakes, maintain smaller rolling diameter for better gearing) or 16/17 (clears larger AP brakes)
15/17 with the proposed tires sizes would be about .05 ~.2" additional rake. You have that much by running worn tries in front and full tread in rear with OEM tires. Rake isn't really an issue.

So it's clear, 949 Racing as a company tends to focus on race fitments. Whatever will make the car faster with cost effective solutions. The NT01 is the clear winner in speed/cost ratio so it's a target tire. Hoosiers for max speed, disregarding cost. In EHP street tires, several choice for good 15's, few in 16". There are the guys running full race slicks (non DOT) but that's not the target for these wheels.

In short, just because the status quo is 16/17 doesn't mean that's the best tool for the job. Think outside the box a bit.
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post #26 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:34 PM
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Even if rake is not an issue, it seems people posting here are more interested in 16/17 or 15/16. The demand for 15/17 is less, is all I'm saying. Whether its a faster combination overall, and whether you believe those particular tire choices are the best will ultimately be up to buyers to decide.

I'm sure there are some trackrats looking to try out such a setup, but if that's really only who you're aiming for, then by all means best of luck. The catch to me seems that many track guys will be running an upgraded brake setup that might require a larger diameter wheel. Hope your testing can accomodate that as well so that everyone can enjoy your product

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post #27 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Even if rake is not an issue, it seems people posting here are more interested in 16/17 or 15/16. The demand for 15/17 is less, is all I'm saying. Whether its a faster combination overall, and whether you believe those particular tire choices are the best will ultimately be up to buyers to decide.

I'm sure there are some trackrats looking to try out such a setup, but if that's really only who you're aiming for, then by all means best of luck. The catch to me seems that many track guys will be running an upgraded brake setup that might require a larger diameter wheel. Hope your testing can accomodate that as well so that everyone can enjoy your product
Been down this road before. An entire community is fixed on a certain setup because that's all that's currently available and what they are used to. I do a little research and discover there is possibly a better way to do things, deliver the new wheel and change the status quo. Tire Rack, Rota and Enkei copy us

When I planned our first wheel, the 15x8 for the Miata, there was enough skepticism around to sink a boat. Now they're the gold standard and virtually every Miata track record for modified cars worldwide is set on our 15x9's built specifically for the car.

I'll do the right wheel set up but I'm not 100% sure what that will be yet. If it ends up being a 15/17, then so be it. If no one buys them even though it's the best setup, it will be because I have failed to educate the community, not because I failed to deliver the right package.

All I ask here is an open mind. Look at the numbers. If you can get a wheel that will weigh less, tire that will weigh less and cost less, have a shorter, wider contact patch, allow the same ride height with a higher roll center then it should be evaluated on merit.

Clearly 16/17 works and is proven. If something else works better, then we'll find it and deliver it.
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post #28 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 06:14 PM
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Anxious to see what you come up with

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post #29 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 949Racing View Post
Been down this road before. An entire community is fixed on a certain setup because that's all that's currently available and what they are used to. I do a little research and discover there is possibly a better way to do things, deliver the new wheel and change the status quo. Tire Rack, Rota and Enkei copy us

When I planned our first wheel, the 15x8 for the Miata, there was enough skepticism around to sink a boat. Now they're the gold standard and virtually every Miata track record for modified cars worldwide is set on our 15x9's built specifically for the car.

I'll do the right wheel set up but I'm not 100% sure what that will be yet. If it ends up being a 15/17, then so be it. If no one buys them even though it's the best setup, it will be because I have failed to educate the community, not because I failed to deliver the right package.

All I ask here is an open mind. Look at the numbers. If you can get a wheel that will weigh less, tire that will weigh less and cost less, have a shorter, wider contact patch, allow the same ride height with a higher roll center then it should be evaluated on merit.

Clearly 16/17 works and is proven. If something else works better, then we'll find it and deliver it.
you need to do 16 in front. sure you can get the same contact patches with 15 and 17, but the people with the 304mm ap brakes won't be able to use 15". I understand you will have to spend lots of money to make new 16" castings, but you'll open yourself up to a bigger, much bigger market. don't be stubborn here.

besides, no one here is going to take your knowledge over the lotus suspension engineers that designed our cars. everything, down to the wheel arch openings are designed for a staggered setup, and that is what people want. period, whether it's 15f and 16r, or 16f and 17r.

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post #30 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 06:47 PM
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I'd be interested in the 15/17 combination--it does work well with Hoosier sizes.

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post #31 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 06:53 PM
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I'd be interested in the 15/17 combination--it does work well with Hoosier sizes.
damn you, Scott! i want 16/17. don't ruin it for me!

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post #32 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 06:59 PM
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Looking forward to 15/17 myself.

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post #33 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM
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I'm just glad to see that 949 Racing is turning its attention to the Elise/Exige fitments. I'm interested in the 15" because it makes it possible to get more tire width in some available tire brands. Plus, I already have several sets of 16/17 size wheels and don't need more.

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post #34 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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you need to do 16 in front. sure you can get the same contact patches with 15 and 17, but the people with the 304mm ap brakes won't be able to use 15". I understand you will have to spend lots of money to make new 16" castings, but you'll open yourself up to a bigger, much bigger market. don't be stubborn here.

besides, no one here is going to take your knowledge over the lotus suspension engineers that designed our cars. everything, down to the wheel arch openings are designed for a staggered setup, and that is what people want. period, whether it's 15f and 16r, or 16f and 17r.
Only a fraction of Lotuses have the 304mm AP brakes. I wouldn't compromise on the application for the smaller brakes just to accommodate them. There are some very fast cars out there with well set up base brakes, some making double the stock whp. Maybe we end up needing two different solutions with both 15 and 16" fronts?

Regarding placing Lotus or any automotive engineers on an unassailable pedestal, sorry. They're just humans like you and me. Talented engineers on a cool project that was well managed. They make mistakes like everyone else, some that you live with every time you drive your car. Mostly though, they created a gem.

In any case, I seem to be spending a lot of time just asking for you all to be open minded to whatever the solution might be. What I'm asking is to spend some time looking at tire options and go from there.

Cruise tire rack. What other tires would you like to run if the appropriate wheel existed?

- Know that everything else being equal, a radial will be fastest when mounted on a rim equal or just slightly larger then the section width of the tire. Ignore lawyer sourced sizing recommendations on mr's websites. The entire racing industry does.
- Look at actual tread widths, not just the nominal width.
- Consider that running a shorter tire improves gearing for a given course in most cases
- Everything else being equal, a smaller diameter wheel and tire will be lighter and have a lower MOI (Moment of Inertia) that an equivalent combo on a larger diameter wheel. Tires are heavier than wheels, rubber has a higher specific mass than T356.0 aluminum.

Again, I'm not committed to any size at all. An argument could be made for 17/17 for that matter. It starts with tires choices. So what tires do you run or would like to run? Do some homework and see what's out there.
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post #35 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 09:18 PM
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OEM engineers must satisfy a number of non-performance criteria that the aftermarket does not have to satisfy. I think Lotus chose the narrow front tires in order to achieve a certain steering feel as well.

If going to a 15/16 setup for the track, who cares about the tire height. Lower the car without changing geometry and lower the gearing, IMO.

Just FYI, I'd probably be more interested in the forged set as well. Seems like the cost difference isn't all that much. But anyway, glad someone is thinking about affordable track solutions.
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post #36 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 09:39 PM
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Personally speaking, from a daily driver/street driven car mainly...time to time autocross/track (if I can make it). I prefer the following tires based on weather, performance, life span, and handling...until someone introduces me to another tire that is the same price or cheaper for the same performance or better:

Dunlop Star Specs 205/50/16 Fronts 235/45/17 rears.

BFgoodrich G-Force T/A KDW2 235/45/17 rears Either a 205/40 or205/45/16 fronts

Those are really the only two tires I would consider based on the tire vs. cost benefit. And truthfully, I REALLY like running the Dunlops in front and the BFGs in rear, as lotus owners know our cars go through the rears MUCH faster than the fronts.
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post #37 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 09:59 PM
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I really like what I'm seeing 949, here is what I need and I hope you don't budge on it because it looks like you're going the right way:

- cheap -> under $1k
- track oriented -> plenty of overpriced flashy rims for the non-track guys out there
- good tire choices -> 15\16"
- light weight - well, I saw the ones you already sell, you seem pretty focused on that
- 15\16 -> to lower the car and the gearing and the weight too

Hope to see them out soon, but I'm tempted to get a set of your existing combinations and make it work too. Any thoughts on 15x7f\15x8r with spacers? How much spacing would it need to fit over stock brakes?
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post #38 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on 15x7f\15x8r with spacers? How much spacing would it need to fit over stock brakes?
A local guy ran our 15x8 +36 wheels all around on his Exige about 3 years ago. 205/50 & 225/50 Kumho V710's. Said he dropped about 1 sec from his previous best running the stock wheels and Hoosiers. That was California Speedway infield, back before Speedventures stopped running infield only. He needed a bunch of spacers in front to clear tires and in rear for a bit more caliper room.

That casting was discontinued in '08 though. The current (Gen II) casting has a slightly different backside.

I'd suggest the 15x7.5+42 in front with about a 15mm spacer and the 15x9 in rear without a spacer. I want to try that on a base Elise as well as a 304mm braked car and see just how far off we are. I can make brake templates then and let my engineer sort out the rest.
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post #39 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 10:24 PM
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For some of us this isn't about "status quo," convention, or being "fixed on a certain setup." Those of us with later model Exiges with the AP brakes simply can't go with something too small. It has nothing to do with preference. Clearly we're in the minority as there are a lot more Elises and '06 and '07 Exiges around. I'm all about the best tool for the job, which is why I went with a Lotus in the first place. My previous track car was highly modified to have an even better power-to-weight ratio than the Lotus. Your rationale for offering a 15" front is sound, but those of us hoping for a 16" option are not all lemmings.
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post #40 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-12-2011, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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For some of us this isn't about "status quo," convention, or being "fixed on a certain setup." Those of us with later model Exiges with the AP brakes simply can't go with something too small. It has nothing to do with preference. Clearly we're in the minority as there are a lot more Elises and '06 and '07 Exiges around. I'm all about the best tool for the job, which is why I went with a Lotus in the first place. My previous track car was highly modified to have an even better power-to-weight ratio than the Lotus. Your rationale for offering a 15" front is sound, but those of us hoping for a 16" option are not all lemmings.
Duly noted sir!

Our Corvette project is up against similar challenges. Different brake packages and fender shapes. This is why this is so useful for us. I have notes collected over the last few years, many conversations with various Lotus tuners and drivers, Shinoo, Rob from BWR, etc. To that we now add your input and hopefully get a clearer picture. In all that, I never conclusively arrived at ideal diameters and had hoped to resolve that here. Doesn't look like one diameter set will work for everyone though.

So far, it's looking like a range of overlapping sizes, 15,16 and 17. Might be mix and match to some extent. Immutable data to support both 15 and 16" fronts.

I had
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