New 6UL race wheels @ 949 Racing - Page 3 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #41 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 05:40 AM
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15x8 and 17x9 is a really good way to go. I am going this direction on the BWR SSM car. I have been investigating for quite some time, but 949 didn't offer 4x100 in the 17s previously. BWR is working on a forged combo like this now, but it is a few months out. The 949 wheels are excellent, very light for a cast wheel, and priced well. The trick will be clearing the front brakes stuffing a full 15x8 and 17x9 under the Elise clams. It can be done, just needs to be perfect.

Emelio, do you have a target release date for the 17x9s in 4x100 and what offset? Tried to send you a PM but you have them turned off.


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post #42 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 05:55 AM
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Would be interested in either 15/17 or 16/17. Tire price between 15 and 16 isn't huge anyway.

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post #43 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 06:16 AM
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I think I would run a 17 on the front if I had to clear the exige brakes. Tire offerings in the 16 are pretty horrible.


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post #44 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fzust View Post
15x8 and 17x9 is a really good way to go. I am going this direction on the BWR SSM car. I have been investigating for quite some time, but 949 didn't offer 4x100 in the 17s previously. BWR is working on a forged combo like this now, but it is a few months out. The 949 wheels are excellent, very light for a cast wheel, and priced well. The trick will be clearing the front brakes stuffing a full 15x8 and 17x9 under the Elise clams. It can be done, just needs to be perfect.

Emelio, do you have a target release date for the 17x9s in 4x100 and what offset? Tried to send you a PM but you have them turned off.
Sorry about the PM's. On too many forums and can't keep track of message threads on the smartphone if I use them. Good talking with you this morning.

Nothing like an ETA yet. Agreed on Exige brakes, might be easier to just run 17's up front. 205/40/17 or 215/40/17 gives the right OD, wider and more choices than 16's.

I see the need to accommodate three different types of tire with one or two wheel fitments:

EHP (Extreme High Performance) for street, autocross and HPDE: RS3, Kumho XS, RE-11 etc
DOT R medium compound: NT01, Hankook C51, RA-1
DOT R soft compound: Hoosier A6 mainly. To a lesser degree Hankook C71, Eagle RS, BFG R1
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post #45 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 10:17 AM
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Intrested on16/17. Emilio, please..
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post #46 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Intrested on16/17. Emilio, please..
What model?
What tire sizes?
What usage?
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post #47 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 11:51 AM
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Emilio, I wish you had contacted me. I already run the 15x8 6UL on the rear of my Lotus Race Car - the wheel will not clear the front caliper in its curretn configuration. I have Run 6ULs for years on my Miata Turbo cars with overall and class endurance wins here in Texas. Your margins are too small, but you ought to sponsor me.

I run Goodyear and Hoosier cantilever slicks on these wheels, by the way, which are designed to put 9 and 10 inches of tread on 7 & 8 inch wide wheels. A proven, practical and relatively economical way to run slick tires.
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post #48 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 11:59 AM
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My 2 cents: You ask what size wheels we want then you tell us that 15 front is the best and seem uninterested in making a 16. Keep in mind that most of your cusomers drive on the track and many of the 111R's on track have the BBK. Many drivers care about looks and don't like the 15/17 look. To sell the most wheels your best bet is to make 16/17 or 17/17. The 16 inch front wheels would fit the demands of EHP tires for our cars (also where most of your sales would go I would guess). Most of the 111R drivers using DOT-R medium like the A048 and R888 available in 16. They will miss out on the RA-1 and NT-01 but have been in that boat for years. The only available DOT-R soft would be Hoosier in perfect sizes (even two different height 225 rears) and would miss out on the other choiches and have been in that boat for years too. I will keep running my 15/17 wheels with small brakes.

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post #49 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 12:24 PM
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I've been running the 15/17 combo on the track for years in the Lotus. I've driven the 15/16 and 16/17.

The 15/17 feels like a better combo to me. Tire selection is plentiful and the front wheels are super light, being 15s. I just wish the wheels would clear bigger brakes. So if you can pull that off, I'll be good for a couple sets and install the BBK

Hope it comes together... sometime in the near future...


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post #50 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 01:02 PM
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The 15/17 feels like a better combo to me. Tire selection is plentiful and the front wheels are super light, being 15s.
So why does the 15/17 combo feel better really? Does it change handling characteristics, manuverability etc...? can you guys expand on this? Also is this only for a track situation, or for a street situation as well?

I mean I have the LSS setup, and so do you REALLY feel a weight difference between the 16 LSS wheel vs. the 15 wheel? Sure I understand you have less totational weight, but I feel like that is really the only difference between the two, and I wouldn't think it to make that much of a difference.

Thanks again,
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post #51 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 02:16 PM
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So why does the 15/17 combo feel better really? Does it change handling characteristics, manuverability etc...? can you guys expand on this? Also is this only for a track situation, or for a street situation as well?

I mean I have the LSS setup, and so do you REALLY feel a weight difference between the 16 LSS wheel vs. the 15 wheel? Sure I understand you have less totational weight, but I feel like that is really the only difference between the two, and I wouldn't think it to make that much of a difference.

Thanks again,
I haven't yet driven 15/17 but my main track wheels are 15/16 while my street wheels are 16/17 because:
-lighter weight = better braking, accelerating, and handling response
-shorter diameter = better acceleration and lower ride height without having to change suspension geometry which helps the aero work more efficiently as well. Also helps limit fender liner rubbing when running low ride heights. I do believe a shorter tire will get to temp easier because it is making more revolutions per the same distance and in these cars getting the front tires up to temp can be tough.
-better selection of tires
-cheaper tires
.......

Only negative is lack of big brakes, I run stock calipers and sized rotors in the front with brake ducts, ti shims, and keep the fluid fresh.

rightseatdriver.

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post #52 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 03:07 PM
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I haven't yet driven 15/17 but my main track wheels are 15/16 while my street wheels are 16/17 because:
-lighter weight = better braking, accelerating, and handling response
-shorter diameter = better acceleration and lower ride height without having to change suspension geometry which helps the aero work more efficiently as well. Also helps limit fender liner rubbing when running low ride heights. I do believe a shorter tire will get to temp easier because it is making more revolutions per the same distance and in these cars getting the front tires up to temp can be tough.
-better selection of tires
-cheaper tires
.......

Only negative is lack of big brakes, I run stock calipers and sized rotors in the front with brake ducts, ti shims, and keep the fluid fresh.
+1. In addition, I don't really pick up any appreciable tire squirm up front with the 15s, despite a bit more sidewall. Short car with a rearward weight bias, so it makes sense. I run 225s up front. They're a short tire-> lower to the ground and wide.

The back seems more responsive than with 16s and the tire selection greater with the 17s in the rear as well... The RA-1 and 888s have good sizes for a short rear on 17s in the 235, Hoosiers too. The 245 16s are a bit tall. It's disapointing that Kooks don't have a short 17 though.

Regarding the weight, I'm not a finatic like some about wheel weight. An 11-14lb front wheel is fine with with me. A 15-17lb rear is cool too. I run both the cast and the forged TD rear 17s. The forged 1.4s are about 4-5 lbs lighter per wheel than the cast 1.2s. The difference is there and you can feel it. It's there in the transitions and it's there in the straights... The cast 1.2 fronts are spec miata wheels and come in at 13 and change, which is good with me, so I mix and match. The 1.2s are up front and the 1.2 and 1.4s take turns in the rear depending on the tires I've got on hand.

Hope that helps,

Phil


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post #53 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 03:40 PM
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My choice: 15x7 front. 16x8 rear. Allows 205/50 or 225/45 up front and anywhere from 225/45 to 255/50 in the rear. I ran with 205/50/15 F and 225/45/16 R for a while with slicks and loved it.

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post #54 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:02 PM
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they look like RAC's! (- the price!)

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post #55 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:04 PM
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pretty sure this has been said. to maximize wheels/tires, you first look at what tires are available.

these are probably the most popular r-comp and street tires for track days.

NT01
Nitto Tire - High Performance Tires for Car and Truck Enthusiasts

RA1
PROXES RA1 | Toyo Tires

Hoosier A6/R6
Hoosier A6
Hoosier R6

for street tire
Hankook Ventus R-S3

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec

Kumho Ecsta XS

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11

what's the widest tires you can stuff in front and rear ?
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post #56 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
pretty sure this has been said. to maximize wheels/tires, you first look at what tires are available.

these are probably the most popular r-comp and street tires for track days.

NT01
Nitto Tire - High Performance Tires for Car and Truck Enthusiasts

RA1
PROXES RA1 | Toyo Tires

Hoosier A6/R6
Hoosier A6
Hoosier R6

for street tire
Hankook Ventus R-S3

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec

Kumho Ecsta XS

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11

what's the widest tires you can stuff in front and rear ?
245 easy, 255 possible depending on the tire/wheel/camber... front is a 205 easy and some 225s fit again with the right offset and such. I think some testing needs to be done on front tire sizing, my fear is that 225's in the front might actually be a bit too big. getting tire temps up to proper operating levels is tough in the front sometime and a wider tire will just make it even tougher.

rightseatdriver.
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post #57 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:31 PM
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I would think you can heat up the 225s with all your DF without issue... I haven't had any problems with the 225s on my car... It gets 100+ here frequently in the summer, as I'm sure it does for you as well... On a cool day, they do struggle to get warm no matter how hard a push it though... I'm not sure I'd trade them for 205s though... Of course thats all part of the game. Testing, testing, testing


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #58 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:47 PM
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I cant seem to locate the info now but I could have sworn that lotus even stuck with a 190 front slick on the cadena cars despite going to a flared and wider rear setup because they weren't able to fully utilize a larger front tire.

rightseatdriver.
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post #59 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 04:56 PM
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Could be... ??? How powerful was that car? What tires were they running? Perhaps they needed more heat than the Rs... or perhaps they just work better? LOL- Testing, testing, testing

I wanna know how those 15s work, so hop to it!


Phil: NASA 2012 and 2014 TT1 Central Champion, 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, 485+whp REV X

2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #60 of 213 (permalink) Old 01-13-2011, 08:22 PM
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Getting tire temp up is difficult on some slicks. But shouldn't be an issue on all street tires and RA1 and NT01 and A6. That covers 95% of track day tires. I would still go max size tire.
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