Cup car wheel sizes - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Cup car wheel sizes

My Elise runs the factor Cup car wheels since new. I believe they are 7 inch wide front and 8 inch wide rear

I have had 205/45/16 front

235/40/17 rear

I haven’t been following the tire market or the forums last 3-4 years as I have been busy with my other toys

Car was anout 200 miles a month. 150 miles on very twisty roads and 50 miles or so on highway

1) would you recommend I keep the same size tires ?

2) any suggestions of tires in the 200 wear ratings?

Thank you

2007 Chili Red Elise
2009 Chrome Orange Exige S260
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 12:17 PM
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I would stick with factory sizes: 195 front and 225 rear. I don't like to run harder tires as you give up too much grip.
Toyo R888Rs are my current favorite and I run them on my Elise. Read my Blog for my reasons: HERE
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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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I would stick with factory sizes: 195 front and 225 rear. I don't like to run harder tires as you give up too much grip.
Toyo R888Rs are my current favorite and I run them on my Elise. Read my Blog for my reasons: HERE
thank you Shinoo

Read your blog

So you recommend me dropping down to 195/225 even on the wider cup wheels ?

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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 01:49 PM
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All of Type 111 chassis cars through model year 2010 came with 195/50-16 up front and 225/45-17 in back...so that would not be a drop down in size.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
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All of Type 111 chassis cars through model year 2010 came with 195/50-16 up front and 225/45-17 in back...so that would not be a drop down in size.
Thank you. I realize that are the stock sizes. I know the 175/225 are also stock sizes

Since I have been running the Cup wheels which are the forged and wider, I didn’t think I could put narrower tires than the 205/235 on those

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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by lotuscupcar View Post
I have had 205/45/16 front, 235/40/17 rear

Car was anout 200 miles a month. 150 miles on very twisty roads and 50 miles or so on highway

1) would you recommend I keep the same size tires ?

2) any suggestions of tires in the 200 wear ratings?

Thank you
If you don't track your car then tires like the A048/888R/AR-1, etc are a waste of your money.

The 195 and 225 A048 that Lotus spec'd for the car are COMPETITION tires, not real road tires, so MUCH better tires can be had in a road capacity.

The size of tire ALWAYS depends on the exact make/model you choose, as the 195/205/225/245 are just made up numbers that don't really correlate to anything. So, your 205/235 could be the same real size as the stock 195/225 that came on the car.

PM me and I'll sort you out, this is what I do.

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Originally Posted by machine.gun.kelly View Post
All of Type 111 chassis cars through model year 2010 came with 195/50-16 up front and 225/45-17 in back...so that would not be a drop down in size.
As long as you realize the 225 isn't actually a 225...it's a 235 by the real numbers. All semi-slicks run wide, and the A048 is no exception.

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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 07:03 AM
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Just for reference...

AKRON—How can tires of the same nominal size designation vary in diameter by as much as an inch or more? One reason is that the Tire & Rim Association's voluntary guidelines, which most manufacturers follow, afford designers considerable latitude in determining tire section width and outer diameter—provided the sum of these two dimensions meets or exceeds the ``minimum size factor'' established by the TRA.

Put another way, when a tire's section width is added to its outer diameter, the total must exceed the number listed for that size under the ``minimum size factor'' column in the TRA yearbook.

In the case of the ill-matched General Ameri. way and Michelin XH4 tires cited in the accompanying article, the inflated Ameri.way's section width measured 7.77 inches, which, when added to the tire's 27.11-inch outer diameter, totals 34.88 inches—a sum comfortably above the 34.55-inch minimum size factor established for size P205/75R15.

The XH4's 8.30-inch section width, when added together with its 26.49-inch diameter, yields a total of 34.79—which likewise exceeds the TRA's minimum size factor for that designation.

Thus, the dimensions of both tires were well within industry guidelines even if they varied enough in circumference to damage a four-wheel-drive vehicle's transfer case.

At the extreme, a tire designer could come up with a P205/75R15 tire as large as 27.3 inches in diameter or as small as 26.22, said a tire engineer who asked not to be identified.

That amounts to more than an inch of difference when the tires are new. It doesn't take into account the additional size difference that will accrue if one tire is brand new and the other is worn.

``That's why vehicle and tire manufacturers are constantly making recommendations to replace a set of tires as opposed to replacing individual ones,'' he said.

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 09:58 AM
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...The 195 and 225 A048 that Lotus spec'd for the car are COMPETITION tires, not real road tires, so MUCH better tires can be had in a road capacity...
I disagree. The Yoko A048s were spec'd by Lotus engineers for road use and track use. The car is so light that it benefits from tires of this 'soft' compound. You will benefit if you are pushing the car in CA canyons.

If you are simply driving the car to shows or for coffee, then Andrew is right, there are tires with MORE life. Performance - as I measure it - is all about grip in the corners. The A048s and R888Rs don't last as long BUT they are what make the lotus handle the way the Lotus engineers intended. Having owned and driven countless Elise/Exiges, I'm with Lotus on tires.
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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 10:16 AM
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I disagree. The Yoko A048s were spec'd by Lotus engineers for road use and track use. The car is so light that it benefits from tires of this 'soft' compound. You will benefit if you are pushing the car in CA canyons.

If you are simply driving the car to shows or for coffee, then Andrew is right, there are tires with MORE life. Performance - as I measure it - is all about grip in the corners. The A048s and R888Rs don't last as long BUT they are what make the lotus handle the way the Lotus engineers intended. Having owned and driven countless Elise/Exiges, I'm with Lotus on tires.
There you go again, thinking my Lotus is driven like my TL. But I wouldn't know anything about driving because I don't have canyons near my house, right?

Think again bro.

The thing is, the A048 is really a competition tire. Yes, you can drive it on the street back and forth to competition, but it's not a good street tire at all. Not nearly as good as say an RS4, AD08R, or RE71R. What do I mean by that? Well, it doesn't last nearly as long, it doesn't handle rain as well, and gets hard much quicker.

Now, if the average Elise/Exige buyer spent 80% of their miles on the track and 20% on the street, I'd side with Lotus here too. Unfortunately, it's the other way around.

Lotus chose the A048 because they had little else to choose from, PERIOD. And the same rings true today...because of the 16" front wheel choice.

But you go ahead and live your canyon life in 2004 Shinoo, I know you like it there .

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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the info. Car has never been to a show, neither have I. And I don’t use it to get coffee. It is used for spirited driving in canyons and going back and forth from there

Didn’t realize it is controversial topic

I was just thinking due to the Cup wheels being wider, it necessitated a wider tire, that’s all.

Also didn’t realize that section width can be arbitrary...

This car lives in Angeles Crest, thus sees canyon miles mostly.

PM incoming as requested

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 10:55 AM
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Didnít realize it is controversial topic
It's not, it's just that more than one of us around here think we know it all .

Your tire is the R1R, all things considered it's impossible to beat for a no-competition street tire IMO.


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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 12:55 PM
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There are a lot of people running larger sizes than stock on LSS wheels. I would recommend upsizing from stock on cup wheels. If I were to be shopping for southern california canyon carving tires for cup wheels I would likely get Hankook RS-4 in 205/45/16 and 235/45/17 sizes. Bridgestone RE-71R would also be high on the list.

These newer generation 200TW tires are almost as grippy as R compound tires but they do not suffer from heat cycling as bad as the R comps do.

I would not buy Toyo R1R tires unless you are shopping for rain tires. They are an old technology and will wear out a lot faster than the newer 200TW tires without providing as much dry grip.
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 01:06 PM
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There are a lot of people running larger sizes than stock on LSS wheels. I would recommend upsizing from stock on cup wheels. If I were to be shopping for southern california canyon carving tires for cup wheels I would likely get Hankook RS-4 in 205/45/16 and 235/45/17 sizes. Bridgestone RE-71R would also be high on the list.

These newer generation 200TW tires are almost as grippy as R compound tires but they do not suffer from heat cycling as bad as the R comps do.

I would not buy Toyo R1R tires unless you are shopping for rain tires. They are an old technology and will wear out a lot faster than the newer 200TW tires without providing as much dry grip.
This is clearly the correct answer.

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 01:40 PM
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There are a lot of people running larger sizes than stock on LSS wheels. I would recommend upsizing from stock on cup wheels. If I were to be shopping for southern california canyon carving tires for cup wheels I would likely get Hankook RS-4 in 205/45/16 and 235/45/17 sizes. Bridgestone RE-71R would also be high on the list.

These newer generation 200TW tires are almost as grippy as R compound tires but they do not suffer from heat cycling as bad as the R comps do.

I would not buy Toyo R1R tires unless you are shopping for rain tires. They are an old technology and will wear out a lot faster than the newer 200TW tires without providing as much dry grip.
I disagree with the RS4 and 71R because neither are made in the 235/40 size, and stepping up to the 45 series gives you a much taller than stock tire in relation to the front.

Stock difference in front to rear OD is 1.4" on an Elise (AD07), and 1.3" on an Exige (A048). The 71R you're suggesting is 2.2" difference in OD, and the R-S4 is a 2.1" difference. How much is .7"? An additional 17 millimeters of rake....

The R1R difference is 1.2", which is the closest to stock.

Then there's the weight...

The R1R saves 4 lbs over the 71R, and a whopping 10 lbs over the R-S4.

And your quip about old technology, please. Give it a few weeks and everything is old technology, and unless you're a track rat you won't notice a difference. Hell, most track rats wouldn't notice the difference.

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 01:42 PM
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This is clearly the correct answer.
Clearly.


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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 02:05 PM
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And your quip about old technology, please. Give it a few weeks and everything is old technology, and unless you're a track rat you won't notice a difference. Hell, most track rats wouldn't notice the difference.
On our endurance car, slightly heavier than an Elige, we run RS-4's. They are notably quicker than the RIR's we have run in both dry and wet conditions and last about 4 times longer. We could not get RS-4's this spring and ran Falken rt615k+ and they were also faster and lasted longer than the R1R's.

How long have R1R's been on the market? When they were originally produced they were rated 80TW. Toyo wanted to get into the ultra competitive 200TW auto cross and road race classes and they did not want to develop a new tire so they relabled the R1R with a 200TW rating without changing carcass or compound. Will the R1R work well on an Elige? Yes. Are there better tires for less money? Yes.
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 03:02 PM
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On our endurance car, slightly heavier than an Elige, we run RS-4's. They are notably quicker than the RIR's we have run in both dry and wet conditions and last about 4 times longer. We could not get RS-4's this spring and ran Falken rt615k+ and they were also faster and lasted longer than the R1R's.

How long have R1R's been on the market? When they were originally produced they were rated 80TW. Toyo wanted to get into the ultra competitive 200TW auto cross and road race classes and they did not want to develop a new tire so they relabled the R1R with a 200TW rating without changing carcass or compound. Will the R1R work well on an Elige? Yes. Are there better tires for less money? Yes.
Don't take me wrong sir, I'm a fan of the R-S4, I just think they aren't as suited to the car as the R1R for most street drivers.

I'm also a fan of the RT615K+...until they wear a little, then they get really, really bad (in my experience).

Mainly I think it's heartbreaking that the AD08R isn't available in the correct size here in the USA, but comes as standard now on the Elise Cup. The AD08R is a superior street tire to most, with the only drawback I can find being price.

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 04:04 PM
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Thanks guys for the info. Car has never been to a show, neither have I. And I donít use it to get coffee. It is used for spirited driving in canyons and going back and forth from there...This car lives in Angeles Crest, thus sees canyon miles mostly....
I suggest the Toyo R888R in stock sizes and you won't be unhappy. Rain performance is actually quite good - as I've been caught is serious rain and the feedback was good. Luckily we don't see much of that here is southern CA...

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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 04:16 PM
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...But you go ahead and live your canyon life in 2004 Shinoo, I know you like it there .
I was simply providing my advice and it was based on his conditions (150miles of twisty canyons/month and 50 hwy). Sounds like a soft tire that delivers all the grip that Lotus recommends is the right solution for him. Stock sizes will ensure he gets to proper op temp sooner. IMHO.

I don't believe any tires have been developed that strike the same raod/track balance as r-compounds.

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Last edited by shinoo; 08-01-2018 at 04:22 PM.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 08-01-2018, 05:20 PM
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My Elise runs the factor Cup car wheels since new. I believe they are 7 inch wide front and 8 inch wide rear

I have had 205/45/16 front

235/40/17 rear

I havenít been following the tire market or the forums last 3-4 years as I have been busy with my other toys

Car was anout 200 miles a month. 150 miles on very twisty roads and 50 miles or so on highway

1) would you recommend I keep the same size tires ?

2) any suggestions of tires in the 200 wear ratings?

Thank you
Sounds like you are good with the tire size I would not change. Based on the type of driving you do Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R is a great balance. Good luck
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