DIY Corner Balance And Ride Height Adjustment - Page 7 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #121 of 140 (permalink) Old 05-22-2015, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HKFEVER View Post
Did I miss out something?

50/50 for cross weight & left vs right.

How about front vs rear?
Front vs. rear balance (and actually, left vs. right balance) is not something that can be effectively changed by adjusting the spring perches; it's really a function of the distribution of mass about the car. If you look at the front vs. rear (LF + RF / LR + RR) or left vs. right (LF + LR / RF + RR) balance while adjusting ride height and corner balance, it really doesn't change significantly. The most effective way to alter those balances is by moving/removing mass around the car (or strategically adding mass via ballast).
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post #122 of 140 (permalink) Old 05-26-2015, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by glb View Post

In general (only), a 2 degree rake down in front is best for aerodynamics.
You might want to think about this a little more....

Most people run about 1/2" of rake on the Elise. Over a 91" wheelbase this is ~.3 degrees.

2 degree rake would mean that the rear was 3.18" taller than the front, which might make your car look .... interesting...


EDIT: sorry, kept reading and saw this was already corrected...

Side note: I just got a pretty great deal last week on a set of Proform wireless scales (with ramps) brand new for $750 from http://www.northernautoparts.com/ if anyone else needs some..

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post #123 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
To properly corner balance your car
APK

Just wanted to thank you.

I finally read ALL the words in your first post, (and apparently was in the correct frame of mind to comprehend all the words this time.), and the light finally came on!


I will be going back into the shop this week, re-set my car to the base ride height (thankfully I record the number of threads exposed on each shock at each step), and adjust ALL FOUR shocks with each step to get the desired weights, not just one corner at a time! (it sounds so simple when I read the line: If your ride height is good, and you don't want to change it... doing all four equally should leave your ride height unchanged.)

Glad the results are worth the time, because this is not a quick process.

Thanks again

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post #124 of 140 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:28 AM
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To all those out there that think this is hard... put it this way! It's some time consuming ! But not hard ! Make sure you do all the steps just like it's said and it's cake ! The Secret for me was making sure the ride height was correct on all sides with the persons weight in there ! amazing ! Thank you ! Almost there !!!!
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post #125 of 140 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 08:27 AM
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Finished ! Ride heights ! LF- 112 RF-113mm RR-123mm LR-123mm !!!
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post #126 of 140 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 09:21 AM
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I am curious, do you have anything extra to support that ride height in the front? (aftermarket steering arms, shims for steering rack, BWR's lower ball joints?, stiffer suspension?)

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #127 of 140 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 11:17 AM
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I'm sorry! Yes , what I have is the nitron 46 track pack also the v2arms from sector111 and also the shims but I didn't install them yet because I believe the v2arms also help the steering . Do you find it too much ? Nitron it self said they wanted 10cm.... that's too low for me.
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post #128 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-17-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
But your LF is high and your RR is low. What do you do? If you increase the preload on one corner, and decrease the preload on the diagonal corner an equal amount, the former corner will increase it's ride height and the latter corner will decrease it's ride height... and corner balance will not be affected significantly. In this case you want to decrease the preload on the LF corner and increase on the RR corner.
Grear topic.
Have 2 questions......
What if front or rear springs have different rates??? 10 turns on FR will not equal 10 turns on LR if ratios different, right???
Have access to a car weight scales, and read a lot here about how to do it right.
But it will be a LOT easy for me if i remove all 4 tyres, and place the car on jack stands, which supports wheel hubs. All jack stands will be leveled between on the scales as well.
It will allow me great access to the coilover springs for adjustments.
I know that wheel weight will not be calculated, but since all 4 wheels weights same, and sits in all 4 corners - i really don't care......FL - RR and FR - RL corner balance only matters.
Did i miss something and is there any downsides?
Thanks
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post #129 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-17-2017, 11:53 AM
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TBD on if you can actually turn the springs. Lots of force in there you may still have to unload the car a bit to be able to turn the springs.
If you're doing ride height adjustment, you'll need to take a measurement with the tires on (baseline) and then make another measurement with hubstands because it is unlikely you will be able to exactly match the height of the wheel/tire assembly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarist75 View Post
Grear topic.
Have 2 questions......
What if front or rear springs have different rates??? 10 turns on FR will not equal 10 turns on LR if ratios different, right???
Have access to a car weight scales, and read a lot here about how to do it right.
But it will be a LOT easy for me if i remove all 4 tyres, and place the car on jack stands, which supports wheel hubs. All jack stands will be leveled between on the scales as well.
It will allow me great access to the coilover springs for adjustments.
I know that wheel weight will not be calculated, but since all 4 wheels weights same, and sits in all 4 corners - i really don't care......FL - RR and FR - RL corner balance only matters.
Did i miss something and is there any downsides?
Thanks

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #130 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-17-2017, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarist75 View Post
Grear topic.
Have 2 questions......
What if front or rear springs have different rates??? 10 turns on FR will not equal 10 turns on LR if ratios different, right???
Have access to a car weight scales, and read a lot here about how to do it right.
But it will be a LOT easy for me if i remove all 4 tyres, and place the car on jack stands, which supports wheel hubs. All jack stands will be leveled between on the scales as well.
It will allow me great access to the coilover springs for adjustments.
I know that wheel weight will not be calculated, but since all 4 wheels weights same, and sits in all 4 corners - i really don't care......FL - RR and FR - RL corner balance only matters.
Did i miss something and is there any downsides?
Thanks
jds62f makes a good point about whether you can actually turn the spring perches under full load. And you're correct about the tires/wheels: they are unsprung weight, and they really don't matter for corner balancing.

And yes, the ratio of front/back turns for equal load shifting is unlikely to be exactly 1:1... but once you do a few cycles and take good notes, you'll get a feel for the actual ratio.

EDIT: I almost forgot... Even if you could turn the spring perches with toe plates or equivalent resting on the scales... it will be very difficult to "null" out the suspension binding the way you would if the car was on wheels and you could roll the car on and off the scale after "bouncing" the binding out.
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post #131 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 06:14 AM
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it will be very difficult to "null" out the suspension binding the way you would if the car was on wheels and you could roll the car on and off the scale after "bouncing" the binding out.
It's not an Lotus the car in question, Alfa 156 - i will be able to loosen upper arm bolts, damper-spring fork bolt, and little bit of all 4 lower arm bolts.....doubt that bind will be much of a problem.
However i will compare results with tyres on after job done.
Thanks
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post #132 of 140 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 11:59 PM
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Dealing with 13mm FL and FR ride height difference and 18mm between RR and LR, reading this topic again and again, i guess that i deal it right after 5 hours in the garage.
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post #133 of 140 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 01:22 PM
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This is very helpful. After many hours, I was able to get to 120mm front and 125mm rear ride height and 50% corner weight on Penske SA Coilovers, V2 arms, ballast, and a full tank of fuel. Now on to the string alignment....
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Last edited by Lotusxs; 04-14-2018 at 06:25 AM.
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post #134 of 140 (permalink) Old 04-08-2018, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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This very helpful. After many hours, I was able to get to 120mm front and 125mm rear ride height and 50% corner weight on Penske SA Coilovers, V2 arms, ballast, and a full tank of fuel. Now on to the string alignment....
It's always great to hear that the thread is still helpful! Next time it won't take as many hours...
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post #135 of 140 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 06:06 AM
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Jot me down as another appreciative member of this discussion on LT. It was really nice not trailering my car to the race shop and wasting a vacation day. I look forward to savings tons of money by being able to do this myself now!

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post #136 of 140 (permalink) Old 04-09-2018, 05:19 PM
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my ode to this thread. Now instead of taking a day off to take the car somewhere else, I take a day off to do the work myself!

Hopefully the pic works

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

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post #137 of 140 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 08:17 AM
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It's a longer story than I have time for, but after doing significant rework of my suspension I needed to do a corner balance. I had done a ride height adjustment, but I don't think the floor is perfectly inline with the suspension mounts. I was driving around and things felt a little off kilter.
I used a cheap ($36) scale, Model: PCR-3115 that can measure 300kg (660 pounds), just enough to weigh an Elise with a half tank of gas. You can find these by many sellers. I got mine from Amazon.
Amazon Link (there used to be a picture):


I used a very straight 10 foot 2x4 to try to get all the scales to be flat and in the same plane. (The scale has adjustable feet that worked very well.) Then I put some 2x6's next to the scales to be able to roll the car to unload the suspension between changes, and reduce the max weight of the scales.
Once I got it setup, it was actually very easy and kind of fun to do.
I used this website to do the corner weight calculations:
https://robrobinette.com/corner_weight_calc.htm
Then I just copied the values into a text file for posterity.
The drives since then have been much better. It was odd, because in the end we only turned the front left shock perch about 3/4 turn and it got it nearly prefect. I am using the Penske shocks, and I was able to adjust the perch without taking off the wheels, because I don't use the set screw (due to Fred's suggestion.) Now I want to get a ride height adjustable shocks on my other cars so that I can do this again.

You can see in these couple pictures how I had things setup.
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post #138 of 140 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 01:34 PM
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Since this thread bumped to the top, figured I would share a few things I've learned since doing a number of these.

1. Unless you have the really nice dual cell scales, having the tire centered in the scale is important.

2. A 1mm difference in scale heights (say one scale is 1mm below the plane formed by the other 3) has a measurable effect on the calculated cross weights.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #139 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-21-2019, 12:28 PM
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Arrow 50.00% Balanced!

I just completed my first corner balance and achieved a 50.00% balance with me in the driver's seat! Took 4 adjustments to get balanced after the ride height was set.

One additional note. The 4 scales were perfectly leveled, but for some reason with the car on the scales, the driver's rear scale deflected an additional 0.5mm, so I corrected that so with the car on the scales, they were still perfectly level.

Now on to the alignment.
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post #140 of 140 (permalink) Old 01-23-2019, 07:54 PM
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I was able to get my 05 Elise corner balanced this summer I thought 50.2% was good. After a little research I went with the alignment from inokinetic. Big change really improved the turn in.

Front Rear
Ride height 125 +/- 3mm 130 +/- 3mm
Camber -2.2 -2.4 to -2.7
Toe (total) 0 3mm total toe in
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