If you can't use monoball, which bushing? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 38
If you can't use monoball, which bushing?

Gotta keep my car in A Street which means I'm not allowed to switch from a bushing to a bearing.

Most of the discussions I've seen on the topic have lead to the consensus being "Use Monoballs".

But if you can't, what bushing is best?

2005 Lotus Elise Ardent Red
Supagoat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 03:44 AM
Elise Guru
 
fzust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 3,040
Our Self-Lubricating Bushings are a great way to go. I prefer them to Monoballs as I think they hold up better over time. Oh and they are less expensive. There are hundreds of cars running them as well as 2 of our Lotuses. The directness and positivity of the suspension is very noticeable at the limit. The rubber bushings move underload and the dynamic toe is disconcerting. These eliminate that feeling completely.

Cheers,

Fred

Self-Lubricating Bushings


Multiple SCCA Solo National and Pro Solo National Championships


Blackwatch Racing - Better for the Street, Proven on the track

Lotus Performance Parts and Accessories

Winning Suspension
- Larini Exhaust - BWR Close Ratio Gearset
We build the toughest Lotus Transmissions for the Elige. From Stock to SCCA-NASA-World Challenge Winners.

6UL wheels
fzust is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 04:58 AM
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,163
In A Street, you can not install any bushing other than OE and remain legal. There is no provision for bushing replacement in Street class.
glagola1 is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 38
My understanding is that you don't have to use OEM specifically.. The rule about bushings is:

Suspension bushings, including but not limited to those which carry the weight of the vehicle and determine ride height, may not be replaced with bushings of a different material or dimension.

2005 Lotus Elise Ardent Red
Supagoat is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 722
Right, but the different material or dimension part is going to rule out any reason to not use OEM bushings. You can't use polys or metals/etc .
esseye is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:15 AM
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,163
I don't know of any other bushings besides OE that are same material and dimension.
glagola1 is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by esseye View Post
Right, but the different material or dimension part is going to rule out any reason to not use OEM bushings. You can't use polys or metals/etc .
Yah, I guess I was hoping there was a bushing that wouldn't eat into the mounting brackets as it wears out.

2005 Lotus Elise Ardent Red
Supagoat is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:53 AM
Less is Better
 
me73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 2,270
It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?
me73 is online now  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 06:59 AM
Registered User
 
glagola1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by me73 View Post
It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?
Don't torture the rule. Just put OE back in. I would protest you if you had aftermarket bushings that didn't match the materials and dimensions of standard... and I don't protest.
glagola1 is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 07:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by me73 View Post
It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?
No, it's come up before. There's actually been clarifications that even having metal sleeving/etc around an otherwise stock material bushing is no go, even if there is no perceived stiffness benefit. It does indeed mean that you must keep the same materials, including the same hardness of otherwise same materials (rubbers), and can't change proportions of bushings that have metal sleeves/etc to have more or less. You also cannot poly-fill bushings that have gaps, which was another common loophole "But I kept the stock bushing! I just filled all the empty space with poly.."

Sandwiching things or adding additional parts equates to changing mounting points/geometry, which is also prohibited.

I haven't read the rules in some years, but there is an overall clause in them or always was before that says something to the effect of "All other changes than explicitly listed are prohibited."
esseye is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 38
Bummer. Alrighty then stock bushings it is.

2005 Lotus Elise Ardent Red
Supagoat is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 08:28 AM
Supporting Vendor
 
shinoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supagoat View Post
Bummer. Alrighty then stock bushings it is.
Consider using our OEalt bushes - they marginally stiffer than stock.
Attached Images
 

InoKinetic - Tasty Bits for Your Lotus

BlackShadow Motors - Niche Car Sales, Service & Restoration

Email or call (951)296-6762 us for advice. We will respond!
shinoo is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 08:30 AM
Less is Better
 
me73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Issaquah, WA
Posts: 2,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by esseye View Post
No, it's come up before. There's actually been clarifications that even having metal sleeving/etc around an otherwise stock material bushing is no go, even if there is no perceived stiffness benefit. It does indeed mean that you must keep the same materials, including the same hardness of otherwise same materials (rubbers), and can't change proportions of bushings that have metal sleeves/etc to have more or less. You also cannot poly-fill bushings that have gaps, which was another common loophole "But I kept the stock bushing! I just filled all the empty space with poly.."

Sandwiching things or adding additional parts equates to changing mounting points/geometry, which is also prohibited.

I haven't read the rules in some years, but there is an overall clause in them or always was before that says something to the effect of "All other changes than explicitly listed are prohibited."
The rule wording is too ambiguous if that's the case. It should just state something to the effect that unmodified, stock suspension bushings are required.
me73 is online now  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-18-2018, 08:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by me73 View Post
The rule wording is too ambiguous if that's the case. It should just state something to the effect that unmodified, stock suspension bushings are required.
It's meant to allow for OE-replacement bushings that are not from the OEM, as tends to be required for many vehicles where you can't necessarily get original parts any longer. The rules are very clear on the "unless explicitly stated, it is not allowed" on every single category.

All that said, unless the car is a dedicated autox car, don't let your class define you! Do what you want with the car, and just drive the appropriate class that results. Unless you're actually going out to nationals and trying to finish in the top 10, it's not going to change your experience significantly. I ran what should have been a very not-competitive Subaru in ESP for a few years just because it had a modified ECU tune - not for power, just because the stock tune had detonation, so I actually ran lower boost and a bit less timing. It was still a ton of fun, just made you want to drive that much better.
esseye is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Suspension (including wheels, tires, brakes)

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome