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-   Suspension (including wheels, tires, brakes) (https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/)
-   -   If you can't use monoball, which bushing? (https://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/if-you-cant-use-monoball-bushing-459664/)

Supagoat 07-18-2018 03:27 AM

If you can't use monoball, which bushing?
 
Gotta keep my car in A Street which means I'm not allowed to switch from a bushing to a bearing.

Most of the discussions I've seen on the topic have lead to the consensus being "Use Monoballs".

But if you can't, what bushing is best?

fzust 07-18-2018 03:44 AM

Our Self-Lubricating Bushings are a great way to go. I prefer them to Monoballs as I think they hold up better over time. Oh and they are less expensive. There are hundreds of cars running them as well as 2 of our Lotuses. The directness and positivity of the suspension is very noticeable at the limit. The rubber bushings move underload and the dynamic toe is disconcerting. These eliminate that feeling completely.

Cheers,

Fred

Self-Lubricating Bushings

glagola1 07-18-2018 04:58 AM

In A Street, you can not install any bushing other than OE and remain legal. There is no provision for bushing replacement in Street class.

Supagoat 07-18-2018 06:09 AM

My understanding is that you don't have to use OEM specifically.. The rule about bushings is:

Suspension bushings, including but not limited to those which carry the weight of the vehicle and determine ride height, may not be replaced with bushings of a different material or dimension.

esseye 07-18-2018 06:11 AM

Right, but the different material or dimension part is going to rule out any reason to not use OEM bushings. You can't use polys or metals/etc .

glagola1 07-18-2018 06:15 AM

I don't know of any other bushings besides OE that are same material and dimension. :)

Supagoat 07-18-2018 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esseye (Post 5873194)
Right, but the different material or dimension part is going to rule out any reason to not use OEM bushings. You can't use polys or metals/etc .

Yah, I guess I was hoping there was a bushing that wouldn't eat into the mounting brackets as it wears out.

me73 07-18-2018 06:53 AM

It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?

glagola1 07-18-2018 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me73 (Post 5873210)
It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?

Don't torture the rule. Just put OE back in. I would protest you if you had aftermarket bushings that didn't match the materials and dimensions of standard... and I don't protest.

esseye 07-18-2018 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me73 (Post 5873210)
It doesn't say that you have to keep all the same materials, just that you have to use a bushing that uses the same material as original. Does that rule mean that you can replace the plastic/rubber/plastic sandwich that makes up our bushings with a straight plastic part of the same material?

No, it's come up before. There's actually been clarifications that even having metal sleeving/etc around an otherwise stock material bushing is no go, even if there is no perceived stiffness benefit. It does indeed mean that you must keep the same materials, including the same hardness of otherwise same materials (rubbers), and can't change proportions of bushings that have metal sleeves/etc to have more or less. You also cannot poly-fill bushings that have gaps, which was another common loophole "But I kept the stock bushing! I just filled all the empty space with poly.."

Sandwiching things or adding additional parts equates to changing mounting points/geometry, which is also prohibited.

I haven't read the rules in some years, but there is an overall clause in them or always was before that says something to the effect of "All other changes than explicitly listed are prohibited."

Supagoat 07-18-2018 07:33 AM

Bummer. Alrighty then stock bushings it is.

shinoo 07-18-2018 08:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Supagoat (Post 5873232)
Bummer. Alrighty then stock bushings it is.

Consider using our OEalt bushes - they marginally stiffer than stock.

me73 07-18-2018 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esseye (Post 5873222)
No, it's come up before. There's actually been clarifications that even having metal sleeving/etc around an otherwise stock material bushing is no go, even if there is no perceived stiffness benefit. It does indeed mean that you must keep the same materials, including the same hardness of otherwise same materials (rubbers), and can't change proportions of bushings that have metal sleeves/etc to have more or less. You also cannot poly-fill bushings that have gaps, which was another common loophole "But I kept the stock bushing! I just filled all the empty space with poly.."

Sandwiching things or adding additional parts equates to changing mounting points/geometry, which is also prohibited.

I haven't read the rules in some years, but there is an overall clause in them or always was before that says something to the effect of "All other changes than explicitly listed are prohibited."

The rule wording is too ambiguous if that's the case. It should just state something to the effect that unmodified, stock suspension bushings are required.

esseye 07-18-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by me73 (Post 5873260)
The rule wording is too ambiguous if that's the case. It should just state something to the effect that unmodified, stock suspension bushings are required.

It's meant to allow for OE-replacement bushings that are not from the OEM, as tends to be required for many vehicles where you can't necessarily get original parts any longer. The rules are very clear on the "unless explicitly stated, it is not allowed" on every single category.

All that said, unless the car is a dedicated autox car, don't let your class define you! Do what you want with the car, and just drive the appropriate class that results. Unless you're actually going out to nationals and trying to finish in the top 10, it's not going to change your experience significantly. I ran what should have been a very not-competitive Subaru in ESP for a few years just because it had a modified ECU tune - not for power, just because the stock tune had detonation, so I actually ran lower boost and a bit less timing. It was still a ton of fun, just made you want to drive that much better.


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