Konig wheels & centering rings - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Konig wheels & centering rings

These will need hub rings to fit and sit centered/no vibration (Elise/Exige is 56.6mm...these are 73.1mm)... the front 15s have decent offset @ 35ET.. rears will need spacers to look normal @ 40ET.

I suggest getting huncentric spacers (spacers with hub rings built into them) from motorsport-tech.com .. they are custom made for any size/spec/application.. not cheap, but best route.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Beemerb0y View Post
These will need hub rings to fit and sit centered/no vibration (Elise/Exige is 56.6mm...these are 73.1mm)... the front 15s have decent offset @ 35ET.. rears will need spacers to look normal @ 40ET.

I suggest getting huncentric spacers (spacers with hub rings built into them) from motorsport-tech.com .. they are custom made for any size/spec/application.. not cheap, but best route.
I donít want to turn a for sale thread into a discussion but I donít think you need hub centric spacers. When bolting up the wheel it will center itself, at least my rims do and they have a bigger center than 56.6mm. Might make mounting slightly harder is all.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Beemerb0y View Post
These will need hub rings to fit and sit centered/no vibration (Elise/Exige is 56.6mm...these are 73.1mm)... the front 15s have decent offset @ 35ET.. rears will need spacers to look normal @ 40ET.

I suggest getting huncentric spacers (spacers with hub rings built into them) from motorsport-tech.com .. they are custom made for any size/spec/application.. not cheap, but best route.
I don’t want to turn a for sale thread into a discussion but I don’t think you need hub centric spacers. When bolting up the wheel it will center itself, at least my rims do and they have a bigger center than 56.6mm. Might make mounting slightly harder is all.
Lets have @VisualEchos chime in.. our resident wheel and tire expert
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:37 PM
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Lets have @VisualEchos chime in.. our resident wheel and tire expert
No, let's not. This is a for sale ad and it's for a vendor that pays the bills around here, so please keep this on topic. Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like. Thanks.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Lets have @VisualEchos chime in.. our resident wheel and tire expert
No, let's not. This is a for sale ad and it's for a vendor that pays the bills around here, so please keep this on topic. Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like. Thanks.

San
Its pretty important to know if these require “modification” to work flawlessly with the Elise or not. And they do, as i researched these exact wheels for some time (and all im trying to do is add value, posting relevant and useful info). Im in no way hurting the vendor. They took a car in, in preperation of the sale, are turning the car back to stock. Im sure they dont have much, if any, idea about fitment of these aftermarket wheels. It even states he isnt sure about the spacers, etc. Anyway, if someone wants to bolt them up without proper hardware, thats up to them. Hub rings can be as cheap as $10/set and prevent a whole mess of events that might follow.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 05:23 AM
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Its pretty important to know if these require ďmodificationĒ to work flawlessly with the Elise or not. And they do, as i researched these exact wheels for some time (and all im trying to do is add value, posting relevant and useful info). Im in no way hurting the vendor. They took a car in, in preperation of the sale, are turning the car back to stock. Im sure they dont have much, if any, idea about fitment of these aftermarket wheels. It even states he isnt sure about the spacers, etc. Anyway, if someone wants to bolt them up without proper hardware, thats up to them. Hub rings can be as cheap as $10/set and prevent a whole mess of events that might follow.
I think you need to start a thread on this, though some already exist, as I believe you are wrong. The OP is not sure if the spacers are needed for clearance of suspension and fenders, not performance. Even a site that sells hub centering rings (for Miatas but several here buy those rims) states the rings are not for performance. https://www.flyinmiata.com/6ul-centering-ring.html
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 11:24 AM
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(thread split off from Hayes' Konig FS )

Just to continue the discussion here, without cluttering up a FS thread.

In my own experience, the necessity of centering rings depends on whom you ask.

The explanation I've heard for no rings, is that the lug nut bores' countersink angle, effectively performs the same function, as they are tightened down. Indeed I've tested this on several vehicles, and with several wheels. Given ultra accurate modern CNC manufacturing, I'm not surprised.

I did however have one set that seemed to benefit from centering rings, in that there was a very slight vibration without them.

Again YMMV.

because racecar
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 05:08 PM
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No, let's not. This is a for sale ad and it's for a vendor that pays the bills around here, so please keep this on topic. Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like. Thanks.

San
Yes, let's do, it's relevant to the sale, and a safety issue.

Hub-centric spacers/rings are a REQUIREMENT for anyone with a brain.

Safety first gents.

2006 Exige
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 06:20 PM
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Yes, let's do, it's relevant to the sale, and a safety issue.

Hub-centric spacers/rings are a REQUIREMENT for anyone with a brain.

Safety first gents.
First, you're late to the party. This thread is an offshoot of the for sale thread, as I suggested.

Second, there are a lot of assumptions here, and you know what they say.

Lastly, I've never used spacers/rings, and never will. I buy the proper wheels for the application. You know, the superlight ones.

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 06:20 PM
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Even the wheel manufacturer of the wheels in question state that hub centric rings are not load bearing. I guess I just donít understand the need for these rings aside from making install easier.

https://konigwheels.com/wheel-info-t...nd-centerbore/
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 07:32 PM
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Hub-centric spacers/rings are a REQUIREMENT for anyone with a brain.


Source, please?

Consider that you're torqueing four lugnuts into their countersunk bores. That results in a lot of force, locating the rim on the rotor face, indexing it, in fact.

Adding rings will not make or break that. If it did, they wouldn't make plastic centering rings - which can melt, by the way, I've done that at a track day.

because racecar
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-13-2019, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, anyway, ill save my breath next time rather than providing useful info to the community. Thanks San, for dividing up the threads. Hope the buyer makes the right decision based on his own opinion to runs hubcentric rings, spacers, etc. I wont bother typing out my experience with rims without rings. I guess one can try and see for themselves.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 09:31 AM
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First, you're late to the party. This thread is an offshoot of the for sale thread, as I suggested.

Second, there are a lot of assumptions here, and you know what they say.

Lastly, I've never used spacers/rings, and never will. I buy the proper wheels for the application. You know, the superlight ones.

San
I don't come here often anymore, the site is trash, and slow. Too bad, it used to be good.



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Even the wheel manufacturer of the wheels in question state that hub centric rings are not load bearing. I guess I just donít understand the need for these rings aside from making install easier.

https://konigwheels.com/wheel-info-t...nd-centerbore/
You're right, they don't understand.



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Source, please?

Consider that you're torqueing four lugnuts into their countersunk bores. That results in a lot of force, locating the rim on the rotor face, indexing it, in fact.

Adding rings will not make or break that. If it did, they wouldn't make plastic centering rings - which can melt, by the way, I've done that at a track day.
The source is the original purpose of lug nuts, and studs. I suggest you look that up.

They're also good enough for Lotus, if you didn't know (and you didn't).




2006 Exige
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 11:31 AM
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there is absolutely not a requirement for hub centering rings. Mostly they are just plastic anyways. We have this conversation on every forum in the world it seems, but the fact is I have sat down and done the math and tested it myself. See further arguments in this thread, most importantly explain how my plastic hub centering rings are intact when I return from a session.

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...tml?styleid=26

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 12:45 PM
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I don't come here often anymore, the site is trash, and slow. Too bad, it used to be good.
...
You're right, they don't understand.
...
The source is the original purpose of lug nuts, and studs. I suggest you look that up.
...
They're also good enough for Lotus, if you didn't know (and you didn't).
Hmm, where to begin.

Sorry you think the site is trash. Perhaps you should avoid logging in altogether? We can arrange that for you, if you find it hard to stay away on your own.

When the very people who manufacture rims state "The ring is only used at the time of fastening", you assert they don't understand what they're saying?

It's been a while since I've read up on "the original purpose of lug nuts, and studs", so please, tell me where to look it up. While your at it, can you please also point us to the relevant ASTM or ASME standard concerning rings? Or maybe a Phd thesis on the "Importance of centering rings as an indexing device in wheel rim interfaces" ?

Mind you, I did draw countless force diagrams in ENG 200 level classes, involving fasteners (and rivets, welds, etc.) but I don't remember centering rings, indexing pins, or the like figuring into it, likely because it was considered so self-evident to beginning engineering students, so as to not merit mention.

Re the pix of the 240R wheels, were those factory installed, or options? Would make a fascinating data point if so - i.e was it the Hethel guys putting them on, or maybe some race team mechanics?

Don't get me wrong, I run rings on most of my vehicles, but its only to help with getting the rim on, and getting the lugs started, that's it.

because racecar

Last edited by Turbopun; 03-14-2019 at 02:57 PM. Reason: wrong wheel model, spelling
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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If you want to have an easier time installing the wheels, just use this instead of rings: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MWAQGSQ..._9gVICbPSTVDF3

Use the rings for other purposes 🙂
And use metal/aluminum rings, not plastic
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 06:29 PM
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Hmm, where to begin.

Sorry you think the site is trash. Perhaps you should avoid logging in altogether? We can arrange that for you, if you find it hard to stay away on your own.

When the very people who manufacture rims state "The ring is only used at the time of fastening", you assert they don't understand what they're saying?

It's been a while since I've read up on "the original purpose of lug nuts, and studs", so please, tell me where to look it up. While your at it, can you please also point us to the relevant ASTM or ASME standard concerning rings? Or maybe a Phd thesis on the "Importance of centering rings as an indexing device in wheel rim interfaces" ?

Mind you, I did draw countless force diagrams in ENG 200 level classes, involving fasteners (and rivets, welds, etc.) but I don't remember centering rings, indexing pins, or the like figuring into it, likely because it was considered so self-evident to beginning engineering students, so as to not merit mention.

Re the pix of the 240R wheels, were those factory installed, or options? Would make a fascinating data point if so - i.e was it the Hethel guys putting them on, or maybe some race team mechanics?

Don't get me wrong, I run rings on most of my vehicles, but its only to help with getting the rim on, and getting the lugs started, that's it.
Most of this is drivel, so I'll only address the 240R wheels. They were originally designed as race wheels for many different vehicles, but ended up only being used on the Lotus. The hub centering rings were factory spec that came on every early 240R wheel. Later wheels were machined to 56.6.



I have had some extremely expensive RAYS, and BBS racing wheels with metal factory hub-centering rings as well.

2006 Exige
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2019, 07:01 PM
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Okay, anyway, ill save my breath next time rather than providing useful info to the community. Thanks San, for dividing up the threads. Hope the buyer makes the right decision based on his own opinion to runs hubcentric rings, spacers, etc. I wont bother typing out my experience with rims without rings. I guess one can try and see for themselves.
I didn't do the dividing, but it was useful to avoid cluttering the for sale thread. Thanks would go to a fellow moderator.

San

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