Rear caliper bolt missing - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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Rear caliper bolt missing

I'm missing the top caliper bolt on my left rear brake caliper. Any luck in finding the exact same bolt at a Ford/Toyota/Chevy/Etc dealership? Any other options other than ordering from Lotus Garage? (Price at LG isn't the problem, it's the 2 week turnaround) Any aftermarket LT vendors that might have a spare one?

It's #12 on this diagram: Lotus Garage - Brake Discs & Calipers

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 04:36 PM
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Maybe Viper

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 05:19 PM
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yeah the viper one should work, but it might be longer.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 05:30 PM
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I was able to find the same bolt at a local fastener store, so perhaps you have something like this in Miss. If not, perhaps they can ship you one cheaply.

Home of Marshall's Industrial Hardware, Inc. - We have it!
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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what do I need to know to search one of these out? It's got

M10 x 80 hex hd. I'm assuming that the M10 is the thread, the 80 is the length and the hex head is well.. obviously the hex head on the end.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 05:38 PM
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I don't recall the specifics of the bolt (there may have been an unthreaded portion for example), but you may also need to know the grade of the bolt and the thread type (e.g. fine).

If you have a place like Marshalls near you, it's easiest to bring your other caliper bolt to the store and go about it that way.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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or wait the M10 would prob be 10mm and would be the diameter right?

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 02:00 AM
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I had one come out on the way to a track event a couple of months ago. I hitched a ride to the Home Depot and found a replacement which was grade 8.8 for $3. I have heard that some of the cheap chinese bolts are not actually the grade that they have printed on them but the bolt held through the track day and the ride home so I was happy. the bolt is M10 x 80 with a 1.25 pitch IIRC.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
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eeek 1.25 pitch... I've got a 1.5 pitch that I picked up here at work and was going to take home and try. I'll swing by home depot and pick up a 1.25 pitch.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 07:58 AM
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You want to be very careful about sourcing suspension or brake hardware (bolts) at chain and discount stores or even local hardware stores. A lot of it is made in Asia and although it may be stamped as graded bolts, it's just the usual knockoff crap. See Carroll Smiths book on hardware and fasteners for more info. You might use whatever you find as an emergiency replacement but substitute proper preferably US made fasteners as soon as possible and really consider whether you want to be doing track days with your brakes held on by junk of very questionable quality. Incidentally, do not substitute stainless steel bolts on brakes, they won't take the heat cycling.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwkoski View Post
You want to be very careful about sourcing suspension or brake hardware (bolts) at chain and discount stores or even local hardware stores. A lot of it is made in Asia and although it may be stamped as graded bolts, it's just the usual knockoff crap. See Carroll Smiths book on hardware and fasteners for more info. You might use whatever you find as an emergiency replacement but substitute proper preferably US made fasteners as soon as possible and really consider whether you want to be doing track days with your brakes held on by junk of very questionable quality. Incidentally, do not substitute stainless steel bolts on brakes, they won't take the heat cycling.
yeah I was definitely aware of that and was going to get something to use "in the meantime"

I found Hex bolts, Standard bolts, Steel grade 8

but I wasn't sure which one I should be looking at. They seem to be measured in inches (maybe) instead of MM and 80mm would be the length right? That comes out to about 3.1 inches and they don't have that. Would a 3" be the equiv?

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 09:30 AM
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No, you're looking at SAE bolts, you need to be looking at the metric bolts. Assuming the info above is correct (M10 x 1.25, 80mm) the part number you want is 6320 (that website has a part number search function).

HTH,

-Ed
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 11:18 AM
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rwbronco

I lost that exact same bolt about a month ago. Miraculously, I was on my way to the local Lotus dealer (Gentry Lane) to order spare bolts for my brake calipers and wheel camber shims at the time. They didn't have them in stock but had another Elise they were working on so they swapped and couriered in the replacement. Saved my bacon again. Excellent dealership.

I had changed the OEM wishbone bushings with Nitron Spherical Bearings the previous weekend and must have not tightened that bolt enough. Strangely enough the Lotus Service Manual (section JJ page 12) says that both rear caliper bolts should have Permabond A134 (same as Permatex Red) on the bolts prior to tightening. It recommends A130 on the front caliper bolts. The
Mechanic at the dealership says he never uses that stuff and just torques the bolts correctly. I've talked to other mechanics who say you only use the Red threadlock when you never have to remove that bolt again. If the bolt has to come out you have to heat the bolt with an Acetylene torch until it's red hot to break down the threadlock before removing. The manual says torque to 45-50 Nm. However, when a bolt is lubricated (grease,oil or threadlock compound) your supposed to reduce torque by 40%. Manual doesn't mention this. Any informed opinions would be appreciated.

Anyway; so I have the spares in front of me. The bolt measured from the base of the hex head is 80mm with 50mm of that unthreaded. I won't bother breaking out the thread gauges but it looks like a fine thread. Says SBE 8.8 on the head and Part # B082W1113F. 17mm head.

Hope this helps.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinP View Post
No, you're looking at SAE bolts, you need to be looking at the metric bolts. Assuming the info above is correct (M10 x 1.25, 80mm) the part number you want is 6320 (that website has a part number search function).

HTH,
oh, well **** I looked and looked for some sort of metric section and couldn't find it

thanks!

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 01:12 PM
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+1 for threadlock
I know most don't use it, but I've had a rear caliper come loose while driving and it's not something worth repeating, so I use it now

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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picked up a M10x75 1.25pitch from Ace today. It measures out to 80mm on a ruler so I'm not sure why it's labeled 75. (using Bolt Depot - Measuring Fastener Length as a guide to measure length)

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 12:45 PM
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Metric Bolts

There is nothing special about metric bolts used in the Lotus cars, unless they are non-standard size. Therefore, such bolts could be obtained from a reputable supplier.

On the other hand, be VEEERY careful when it comes to suspension bolts!!! Hardware store bolts are suspect.

So, please, check the number on the head of the bolt, it should be 10.9!

The most important part of the bolt is the grade. Metric grades are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.8. The grade corresponds to the strength of the bolt and the steel used. Generally 8.8 or lower should NOT be used, unless it is used to bolt a cup-holder and then you would probably snap it 12.8 is very strong but maybe brittle, so use with caution.

The threads should be rolled and not cut, although this is hard to tell. The thread should not run all the way to the top, it causes a stress riser under the cap. Usually metric thread does not run all the way to the top. The thread should engage in the nut or in this case the hub to the depth of at least 2x the diameter, so for 10mm bolt it should screw in 20mm or 3/4", minimum. (Aircraft bolts come with exactly the amount of thread you need that is why there are so many kinds).

Any kind of plating weakens the bolt. Stainless is generally not graded and should not be used. Titanium, bolts are not graded and are weaker then steel. There are aluminum bolts made of 7075, they are also not graded.

Metric bolts are sized by diameter, length and thread pitch. M10x80mm is 10mm diameter and 80mm length. 10mm is about 3/8". The problem with metric bolts is thread pitch. There is .75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 and 2.0 mm pitch. Some is really hard to find in North America.

Bolts should be bought from a reputable supplier, so you can rely on the grade stamp. If other people are trusting their heavy equipment with it, you should be OK.

Anton

P.S. Only useful non-metric grade is SAE 8. There is only coarse and fine pitch for every diameter. There is Grade 9 or L9 sold, but it is not official SAE, although the specs look good.



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Originally Posted by rwbronco View Post
picked up a M10x75 1.25pitch from Ace today. It measures out to 80mm on a ruler so I'm not sure why it's labeled 75. (using Bolt Depot - Measuring Fastener Length as a guide to measure length)
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-28-2010, 12:46 PM
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Bolt Supplier

Mcmaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr

Usually ships in a day. Pricey. Can trust spec.

Anton

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwbronco View Post
picked up a M10x75 1.25pitch from Ace today. It measures out to 80mm on a ruler so I'm not sure why it's labeled 75. (using Bolt Depot - Measuring Fastener Length as a guide to measure length)
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
There is nothing special about metric bolts used in the Lotus cars, unless they are non-standard size. Therefore, such bolts could be obtained from a reputable supplier.

On the other hand, be VEEERY careful when it comes to suspension bolts!!! Hardware store bolts are suspect.

So, please, check the number on the head of the bolt, it should be 10.9!

The most important part of the bolt is the grade. Metric grades are 8.8, 10.9 and 12.8. The grade corresponds to the strength of the bolt and the steel used. Generally 8.8 or lower should NOT be used, unless it is used to bolt a cup-holder and then you would probably snap it 12.8 is very strong but maybe brittle, so use with caution.

The threads should be rolled and not cut, although this is hard to tell. The thread should not run all the way to the top, it causes a stress riser under the cap. Usually metric thread does not run all the way to the top. The thread should engage in the nut or in this case the hub to the depth of at least 2x the diameter, so for 10mm bolt it should screw in 20mm or 3/4", minimum. (Aircraft bolts come with exactly the amount of thread you need that is why there are so many kinds).

Any kind of plating weakens the bolt. Stainless is generally not graded and should not be used. Titanium, bolts are not graded and are weaker then steel. There are aluminum bolts made of 7075, they are also not graded.

Metric bolts are sized by diameter, length and thread pitch. M10x80mm is 10mm diameter and 80mm length. 10mm is about 3/8". The problem with metric bolts is thread pitch. There is .75, 1.0, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 and 2.0 mm pitch. Some is really hard to find in North America.

Bolts should be bought from a reputable supplier, so you can rely on the grade stamp. If other people are trusting their heavy equipment with it, you should be OK.

Anton

P.S. Only useful non-metric grade is SAE 8. There is only coarse and fine pitch for every diameter. There is Grade 9 or L9 sold, but it is not official SAE, although the specs look good.
thanks mate! I learned most of this information in my search for a new bolt. The bolt I bought was an M10x75 and a pitch of 1.25 and was 8.8. It will get me by for the time being as I usually drive it once a week or so to work when it's this wet and cold out. It measured out to be 80mm from under the head downward but was slightly shorter than the M10x80 1.5 pitch I had accidently picked up. I'll be buying a proper bolt of at least 10.9 grade that's the exact length of the missing bolt so I'm not short two or three threads.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 06:37 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ageshelin View Post
Mcmaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr

Usually ships in a day. Pricey. Can trust spec.

Anton
thanks for the link - looks like a reputable site and I always prefer being suggested a site by someone than finding it through say google - which can be manipulated.

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