Toe link question??? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-01-2012, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
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Toe link question???

so i purchased the BOE toe link half link kit. i was thinking this would just be a bolt on part. well come to find out it requires drilling the frame hole bigger! so this scares the crap outta me because there is no way to return to stock if desired and if for some reason BOE goes outta business will i beable to purchase another heim joint (im sure its a standard joint but not 100%). so i guess my question is should i just go ahead and drill it or should i send it back and fork out the extra cash for the sector 111 ds brace? and does it really make a difference?
thanks,
Jeff
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-01-2012, 05:25 PM
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Big suggestion on drilling, the exhaust gets in the way of drilling the driver's side from rear to front. I suggest you drill that hole from the engine side back towards the rear of the car. Try to keep the drill level and true. Purchase a spare drill bit, you will likley use two of them.

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-01-2012, 06:01 PM
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You can also buy the Sector 111 toe link brace, it doesn't require drilling and mine's worked great over three years of tracking. I got the version which doesn't screw to the transmission mount, just so that in case of a side impact, the toe links will still shear and protect the chassis. The more you reinforce that stuff, the higher the odds of damaging something else.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-01-2012, 06:24 PM
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I considered the same kit until I read about drilling on the frame and you also have to drill thru the rear lower bushings.... For all the great things BOE does......Why mix Sae/an with metric hardware? I have only metric tools..... went with Sector.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-01-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 407Driver View Post
I considered the same kit until I read about drilling on the frame and you also have to drill thru the rear lower bushings.... For all the great things BOE does......Why mix Sae/an with metric hardware? I have only metric tools..... went with Sector.
The car's already a bastard, the entire oil cooling system is SAE.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-02-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apex_in_sno View Post
The car's already a bastard, the entire oil cooling system is SAE.
Not only that, but many of the fasteners have metric heads combined with SAE threads. It's nuts.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-02-2012, 05:40 PM
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Personally, I'd have no problem drilling the frame. The whole purpose of this product is to make it so you never will need to replace this part again, so part obsolescence shouldn't be an issue.
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 09:18 AM
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I got the Boe toe links, drilling wasn't a big deal even though I'm using monoballs and had to drill the metal bushings in those. I can't see why I would go back to stock so didn't mind the drilling. The joints are standard you can find them anywhere they sell heim joints, as for the bolts, they are not SAE, but AN which is the most reasonable way to obtain the highest shear strength hardware in the United States.
The only thing this product is missing is the "sugar coat"... to make the average LT member want to drill their frame.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 10:00 AM
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I did it on my old elise. It is a bit of a pain but no huge deal. Factor a 1/2" high qulity drill and 2 good bits in the cost of the install.

Seriously, my car is small
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 10:15 AM
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Just to echo these other comments... The joints are standard size. You can replace with any brand you like, as all the major heim joint manufacturers carry this size.

Like the others said, enlarging the hole has a little up-front pain, but in the long run is the cleanest way to go. I also cannot imagine a reason to undo this mod... The assembly is light, uber easy to service, and uses race industry standard hardware (AN, airframe). All the consumable parts, bolts and joints, are readily available even if we disappear...

Cheers,

Phil


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Last edited by turbophil; 07-03-2012 at 10:44 AM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 10:37 AM
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Adding yet another "this isn't that hard" to the thread. I did have my clam and exhaust off so it was much easier for me to get to it. Just make sure to step up through the bits and use something as a lubricant (I just used WD40 and it worked great).

Every time I drill a new hole in my car it just makes me smile - what other car would you do that to? I've drilled out the floor for my harnesses/seats, the toe links, the underside for my skirts, etc...

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-03-2012, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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sorry drilling holes scares me! its not that i don't feel comfortable doing it, i mean i work/drill on airplanes for a living. its just simply that i don't wanna drill into the frame of my car! and i guess i dont understand why the product was not designed to utilize the stock hole ???? (give me a legitimate reason with references to back it up and ill drill away)
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 05:04 AM
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It is simple physics, a larger AN grade bolt is much stronger than a smaller non-AN grade bolt. It is meant to be a one time fix, and largely worry free after that. Watch a few of the "elise toe link" failure videos out there, you will then want a beefy strong solution after viewing.

Storm titanium 2005 Elise with carbon fiber spoiler, BWR sway bar, BOE toe links, gPan2, LidBone, sector 111 wheel studs, Grey RAC Monolite wheels with toyo R1R, Team Dynamics 1.4 with Hoosier A6/R6s, Katana2 Supercharger, ECU with 265 flash. PPE headers w/decat, CEL angle eliminator, Silent touch catback, Rear Panel Eliminator, HKS intake, V2 fuel tank, Walbro255 fuel pump. HID lights.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 06:55 AM
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Are you sure? I do not think, I saw any. Some metric bolts are very close to SAE.

Metric hardware is much harder and more expensive to source in the US, especially heims. Also metric bolts have too many different thread pitches which makes it even harder to stock and figure out e.g. a 12mm bolt can have 2mm, 1.75, 1.5, 1.25 an 1mm pitch while SAE is just fine and course thread.

AN stands for (US) Army/Navy standard developed during WWII, it is mostly used for aircraft-style plumbing. Although, there is avery complicated and expensive bolt/fastener standard, as well.

Anton


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Originally Posted by metrocube View Post
Not only that, but many of the fasteners have metric heads combined with SAE threads. It's nuts.
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-05-2012, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killcraft View Post
sorry drilling holes scares me! its not that i don't feel comfortable doing it, i mean i work/drill on airplanes for a living. its just simply that i don't wanna drill into the frame of my car! and i guess i dont understand why the product was not designed to utilize the stock hole ???? (give me a legitimate reason with references to back it up and ill drill away)
ITs your car. If you prefer not to drill it, then don't drill it. The product requires a bigger hole because the hardware is bigger to adress the weak area.


Shear area goes up with the square of diameter and bending strength goes up with the 4th power of diameter (or is it 3rd?). Anyways increasing a bolts diameter drastically increases it strength (captain obvious). You might be able to use the same size hole with hardware made of some supper alloy. Of course that would make replacement hardware harder to find and would likely reduce the toughness of the assembly.


THe other kits are a bit more convientent. I believe adding the load sharing bar to be less elegant approach. However, they work fine. GO for one of those if you dont want to drill. I am suprised you didnt notice drilling was required before ordering.

Seriously, my car is small
07 Exige-S, "Landshark"
05 Saffron Yellow "bumbleBee", on to a new owner
Also:
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 06:35 AM Thread Starter
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ok i understand making it bigger makes that part stronger. the problem is when you make one part stronger no longer is that part the first to give in a accident or another extreme situation so by only making one part stronger means another more expensive part down the line breaks!!
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 06:48 AM
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i had to go BOE with the aircraft grade materials because i drive at an abandoned airport. But Andrew & Phil did the install. Seriously - do what you are comfortable with. It's the only way to fly.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 07:39 AM
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ok i understand making it bigger makes that part stronger. the problem is when you make one part stronger no longer is that part the first to give in a accident or another extreme situation so by only making one part stronger means another more expensive part down the line breaks!!
OF course but this part needs to "not be" the weakest link as it is now.

The point of all the kits is to make this area stronger.

Seriously, my car is small
07 Exige-S, "Landshark"
05 Saffron Yellow "bumbleBee", on to a new owner
Also:
84 930 turbo, 06 WRX Wagon
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 07:50 AM
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If the toe-link fails whether you're driving down the highway/track or are in a shunt that causes it to break, you have a totaled car (as far as insurance would be concerned, as the parts damaged are extensive)--- end of story. There are VERY few exceptions to this. The toe-link should not be a "weak link". Lotus made a mistake here, as they did with a lot of parts on the car. That's largely what all of us in the aftermarket or the DIYers at home are trying to do-- fix mistakes. The toe-link issues were hashed out YEARS ago. It's incorrect thinking to believe it should be a weak link...

Cheers,

Phil


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2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works 6 SPD 435WHP || 2014 Black Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP|| 2011 White Evora Skunk Works IPS 390WHP || 2006 CO Elise, Rev400, Steet Car

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-06-2012, 08:55 AM
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Hey all,
Has this issue ever been rectified by lotus in newer cars or are they still just ignoring it?
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