Who's running 2 pot calipers front and rear? - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-01-2017, 06:27 PM
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If you don't mind the weight you can just leave the old e brakes attached only by the cable. In that case it is 100% easy.

Otherwise there are some lightweight e brakes you can buy that work with the existing cables easily.
Any idea, what kind of lightweight e-brakes will work with this setup?? I'm going to be doing this as well...and would really rather prefer removing the old rear caliper.

Otherwise I might just re-attach for inspection.

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post #22 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-05-2017, 07:12 PM
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I plan to do this modification in 2018, but with a hydraulic e-brake setup to avoid mounting two calipers on the rear.

Has anyone actually tested this setup using the same pads front and rear with this setup? Seems to be a lot of conversation that the similar pads add too much rear brake bias, but not sure anyone has ever admitted to actually running such a setup.

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post #23 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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I've not seen anyone saying same pads front and rear were a good idea, i did not plan to test it out either. I'm running carbotech/gloc pads, so planned on 10/8 or maybe 12/10, and on the street putting the autocross pad on the front and the street pad on the rear.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #24 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 04:41 AM
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I've not seen anyone saying same pads front and rear were a good idea, i did not plan to test it out either. I'm running carbotech/gloc pads, so planned on 10/8 or maybe 12/10, and on the street putting the autocross pad on the front and the street pad on the rear.
I did, it was not good. Way too much rear bias for my liking. I am running the BOE manual brakes now with the bias adjuster and using cobalt XP2 now all around and it's great. My brake sensors failed (thanks ****ty aim) so I don't know what my bias is right now, but I can report back later.

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
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post #25 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 07:44 AM
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Okay thanks. It's just for the longest time everyone repeated that you should have one compound higher in front than rear for the stock calipers, but obviously we now know that's not optimal. I was wondering if the same was happening again.

Do you still think the unpowered brakes are "barely streetable?"

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post #26 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 07:49 AM
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Okay thanks. It's just for the longest time everyone repeated that you should have one compound higher in front than rear for the stock calipers, but obviously we now know that's not optimal. I was wondering if the same was happening again.

Do you still think the unpowered brakes are "barely streetable?"
If you are referring to "unpowered brakes" as having the option of a balance bar and no brake booster, these cars really do not need a brake booster. I drive my car on the street and it is just fine. You just have to get use to a firmer pedal and a little more pedal effort.

Later,
Eldon
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post #27 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 09:41 AM
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I am made larger diameter rotors(304mm) on the front to help with balance and will try the same compound pads this spring...the set up still fits under the stock wheels, saves about 12 lb. and the increased mass of the front/floating rotors should help with thermal capacity.

2006 Elise with BOE 400 supercharger and some aero mods, CRF floating oversized rotors, MCS single adjust coil overs, CRF exhaust, CRF sway bar w/adjustable link, mono-ball pivots, machined steer arms, baffled oil pan, CRF titanium toe link brace, hardened motor mounts, Ethos wheels w/Yoko slicks
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post #28 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 09:57 AM
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If you are referring to "unpowered brakes" as having the option of a balance bar and no brake booster, these cars really do not need a brake booster. I drive my car on the street and it is just fine. You just have to get use to a firmer pedal and a little more pedal effort.

Later,
Eldon
Did you keep ABS with this balancing bar set up? I'm probably going to install one for next season but I'm curious about ABS. I've auto-xed a car without ABS for a few years and accidental lock up was about as common as I'm getting accidental ice-mode now... I'm wondering if I should keep ABS or not.
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post #29 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:21 AM
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Does anyone know if this setup will fit with 15/16 wheels (Rota Slipstreams)?
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post #30 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:36 AM
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Did you keep ABS with this balancing bar set up? I'm probably going to install one for next season but I'm curious about ABS. I've auto-xed a car without ABS for a few years and accidental lock up was about as common as I'm getting accidental ice-mode now... I'm wondering if I should keep ABS or not.
No, I ditched the ABS because of the "ice-mode". The feedback and force required to produce lockup is much better because you don't have a brake booster. The biggest benefit that you are going to see for autoXing is that you will be able really dial-in rear brake bias. When the rear brakes are controlling how the rear tires slow down vs the engine controlling it, you will get addicted to it. When start using the rear brakes to slow down, you don't overload the fronts.

You cannot beat a motorsports ABS system that is dialed-in. Where I find a excellent ABS system is advantageous is when it is taking care of the one tire that wants to lockup but the other three are just fine.

Later,
Eldon
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post #31 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:37 AM
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Does anyone know if this setup will fit with 15/16 wheels (Rota Slipstreams)?
I believe standard two pot calipers will clear the 15" wheels in the front. The rear is no problem.

Later,
Eldon
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post #32 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:42 AM
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Thanks for the feedback.
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post #33 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by eldonz View Post
If you are referring to "unpowered brakes" as having the option of a balance bar and no brake booster, these cars really do not need a brake booster. I drive my car on the street and it is just fine. You just have to get use to a firmer pedal and a little more pedal effort.

Later,
Eldon
What if we're skipping leg day?

I like firmer pedals (stock Elise pedal is too soft for my tastes), but I don't want to feel like I'm going to the gym everytime there's congestion...
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post #34 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 10:47 AM
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P.S. I'm actually thinking of using the Wilwood mech spot caliper as a handbrake. It should still result in some weight savings over keeping the standard iron caliper and allows for me to retain a mechanical brake.

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post #35 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:12 AM
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What if we're skipping leg day?

I like firmer pedals (stock Elise pedal is too soft for my tastes), but I don't want to feel like I'm going to the gym everytime there's congestion...
The actual pedal pressure required is based on the size of the master cylinders used. You can either go with Phil's recommendation or try a smaller size which would require less effort but create more travel.

I would have to say that it actually requires more effort to push the clutch pedal than the brake pedal.

Later,
Eldon
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post #36 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 11:44 AM
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The actual pedal pressure required is based on the size of the master cylinders used. You can either go with Phil's recommendation or try a smaller size which would require less effort but create more travel.

I would have to say that it actually requires more effort to push the clutch pedal than the brake pedal.

Later,
Eldon
Thanks that's great info.

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post #37 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 12:03 PM
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If you are referring to "unpowered brakes" as having the option of a balance bar and no brake booster, these cars really do not need a brake booster. I drive my car on the street and it is just fine. You just have to get use to a firmer pedal and a little more pedal effort.

Later,
Eldon
I can verify that Eldon has one of the most insane braking cars I have ever driven in. Once you get the feel for the pedal it is becomes extremely easy to control.

-Dino
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post #38 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 01:56 PM
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Okay thanks. It's just for the longest time everyone repeated that you should have one compound higher in front than rear for the stock calipers, but obviously we now know that's not optimal. I was wondering if the same was happening again.

Do you still think the unpowered brakes are "barely streetable?"
You get used to the unpowered brakes and it just becomes the norm apparently. I also like it much better with XP2 pads all around, while the first stop is not great they are fine after that and like Eldon said, having the right amount of rear brakes is magical. If you don't have any downforce and street tires the XP3 pads might be enough, but I much prefer the XP2 which make it feel like a formula car does in iRacing.

One thing that noone is talking about here is that you will save $ in the long run with the full setup as well. My pad use has gone down by roughly half at least, though its early to say, it might even be more then that. And if I am using less pad I must be using less rotors?

2007 Exige S with almost every track mod...
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post #39 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 04:09 PM
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You get used to the unpowered brakes and it just becomes the norm apparently. I also like it much better with XP2 pads all around, while the first stop is not great they are fine after that and like Eldon said, having the right amount of rear brakes is magical. If you don't have any downforce and street tires the XP3 pads might be enough, but I much prefer the XP2 which make it feel like a formula car does in iRacing.

One thing that noone is talking about here is that you will save $ in the long run with the full setup as well. My pad use has gone down by roughly half at least, though its early to say, it might even be more then that. And if I am using less pad I must be using less rotors?
Thanks! The one variable in this equation for me is I might pair them with a set of Frenos...
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post #40 of 156 (permalink) Old 12-06-2017, 05:01 PM
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I believe standard two pot calipers will clear the 15" wheels in the front. The rear is no problem.
Thanks! It is now on my to do list!
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