Who's running 2 pot calipers front and rear? - Page 5 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #81 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 04:14 PM
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The HiSpec caliper with E-brake is a cross bolt mount, not radial mount. There will be some sort of adapter needed to make this work.

HiSpec does offer 130mm radial mount(like the front Elise) caliper options, 2 pot and 4 pot. The 2 pot looks very close to the AP that is stock on the Elise.

HiSpec offers pads from a hand full or makers so there are some backing plates made, not sure what the options are in the US. Not many track oriented pads offered so keep that in mind.

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post #82 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realrundell View Post
Haven't been on here in a while, but found this thread interesting. I championed this setup years ago on this forum and have been running these brakes for years now. I used front calipers front and rear with a slightly less aggressive pad on the street for some time now. I use the old Brembo slider for the park brake. I have since perfected the bias(for me at least) with an AP 41.3mm 2-pot on the rear. In combo with the approximately 44mm front pistons, you get a natural bias that works. By the way, I have never experienced "ice mode" with this setup. As a matter of fact, that was the reason for the rear brake upgrade-too much front bias causing the car to go into an ABS event prematurely. Here is on old picture of the first set up.
Which caliper is the AP 41.3 mm 2-spot that you're running? Is it plug and play?

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post #83 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEchos View Post
I'm literally wanting the Lotus OEM 308mm black BBK front and rear.



Now we're talking. Let me find out what I need and I'll get back to you. My main question was really if the bracket will be different for the rear than for the front.



Yes, that's exactly what I'm meaning.



I'm just wanting the 4-pots in the back just like the front. I plan on getting some after-market solution for the ebrake.




Yes, exactly. But without an ebrake, all I would need is a custom bracket/spacer for the rear, correct? My wonder is if I could use the same brackets as the front use.

Also, I wonder if the black OEM BBK 4-pot AP racing caliper and the red one I showed in the above link would use the same brackets. Maybe such brackets already exist?
Rear radial calipers require a bracket since the stock single pot/e-brake caliper is a cross bolt design and no other calipers bolt directly on that mount. I'm happy to help how ever I can, been making brake kits for a dozen years, including 100's of custom rotors for Elise/Exige, Tesla Roadsters and NSX.
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post #84 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 04:29 PM
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I forgot to mention the piston area of the HiSpecs is halfway between the stock rear and the stock front, which might give a pretty nice bias. Interested in doing a science experiment? We could always pull in Dave.

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post #85 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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I went to AP and could only find a few caliper with 41.3mm pistons in the 2 piston family.

https://www.apracing.com/product_det...nd_cp4596.aspx

https://www.apracing.com/product_det...0mm_discs.aspx

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Last edited by jds62f; 01-04-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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post #86 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:03 PM
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Was looking at their site earlier and couldn't find it.

...and now their site is down.

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post #87 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:04 PM
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Just noticed that all the British Lotus Specialists show an AP 4-pot caliper BBK that is claimed to be: 1) a direct fit (no spacer?), and 2) same as 2008+ Lotus S240/S260. Certainly #2 is not true based on my S240, but wouldn’t be the first time US and UK Lotus cars have been been unaccountably different. Also, wouldn’t be the first time UK suppliers have been misleading.

So, possibly there is an AP 4-pot caliper that mounts identically to the OEM 2-pot. Anybody here have a good contact in the UK that could check this out and get the AP part numbers on the caliper if it really does mount exactly like the OEM 2-pot? Maybe VisualEchos quest is not as difficult as we initially thought.

Bob L
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post #88 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:07 PM
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P.S. I'm doing more research on HiSpec and it seems there really is a lot of problems with them.

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post #89 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulabob View Post
Just noticed that all the British Lotus Specialists show an AP 4-pot caliper BBK that is claimed to be: 1) a direct fit (no spacer?), and 2) same as 2008+ Lotus S240/S260. Certainly #2 is not true based on my S240, but wouldn’t be the first time US and UK Lotus cars have been been unaccountably different. Also, wouldn’t be the first time UK suppliers have been misleading.

So, possibly there is an AP 4-pot caliper that mounts identically to the OEM 2-pot. Anybody here have a good contact in the UK that could check this out and get the AP part numbers on the caliper if it really does mount exactly like the OEM 2-pot? Maybe VisualEchos quest is not as difficult as we initially thought.

Bob L
AP offers a kit specifically for the lotus, 4 pots all around. It is exactly what VisualEchos linked to, and you can pick between 315mm and 330mm discs.

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post #90 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
Was looking at their site earlier and couldn't find it.

...and now their site is down.
I'm becoming more confident CP5317 is the caliper realrundell is using. It has the 41.3mm bore, the mounting looks very similar to CP5119 (which I am assuming is nearly the same as the CP5111 caliper on our cars).

Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll chime in on mounting, rotors, etc

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post #91 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
I went to AP and could only find a few caliper with 41.3mm pistons in the 2 piston family.

https://www.apracing.com/product_det...nd_cp4596.aspx

https://www.apracing.com/product_det...0mm_discs.aspx
Yay it's back up. That AP Racing CP5300 series caliper looks suspiciously familiar...

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post #92 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
I'm becoming more confident CP5317 is the caliper realrundell is using. It has the 41.3mm bore, the mounting looks very similar to CP5119 (which I am assuming is nearly the same as the CP5111 caliper on our cars).

Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll chime in on mounting, rotors, etc
Agreed. I'm also wondering if the CP5316 caliper would work well for us. Even smaller bore, but still quite a bit bigger piston area (when you take into account it's a 2 pot) than the standard rear slider.

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post #93 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:24 PM
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One word of warning, not all brake pads are made by the vendors. Once you find a caliper, check to see if your favorite brake pad manufacture makes pads for them. I have run in to this problem and have had to switch to other brands.

Later,
Eldon
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post #94 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
Agreed. I'm also wondering if the CP5316 caliper would work well for us. Even smaller bore, but still quite a bit bigger piston area (when you take into account it's a 2 pot) than the standard rear slider.
Tangent- looks like EP also sells the 41.3mm rears (based on looks alone), though they ant you to pair them with their GT uprights ($$$)


https://www.eliseparts.com/products/...-pot-calipers/
https://www.eliseparts.com/products/...-s2-rear-pair/

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post #95 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
Tangent- looks like EP also sells the 41.3mm rears (based on looks alone), though they ant you to pair them with their GT uprights ($$$)


https://www.eliseparts.com/products/...-pot-calipers/
https://www.eliseparts.com/products/...-s2-rear-pair/
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post #96 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldonz View Post
One word of warning, not all brake pads are made by the vendors. Once you find a caliper, check to see if your favorite brake pad manufacture makes pads for them. I have run in to this problem and have had to switch to other brands.

Later,
Eldon
Cobalt will make any pad you send them the backing plate for. And they are the best so there is no need for the other manufacturers to make them

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post #97 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-04-2018, 08:20 PM
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AP 2-pot

The AP CP5317 is indeed the caliper I now have. I purchased them a few years back from eliseparts.com . My mounting brackets were from Sector111, but there were a couple other places that had them as well. I just switched my existing brake hoses from the Brembo calipers to the AP calipers. Just carefully reroute the hose. I drained all the fluid from the Brembos and installed a bleeder screw where the hose previously attached(to keep dirt out). The beauty is that you use the same pads on all four corners. I've never been a fan of staggering brake pad compounds in racing or on the street. For street you are just band-aiding a base brake issue and in racing I consider it a bit dangerous and unpredictable. Different compounds heat up at different rates and cool at different rates which means you may have nice balance just as the sweet spots cross, but then the balance leaves as temps continue to change.

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post #98 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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I might take action on this very soon so I want to confirm what you're saying:

You used a bracket for moving the front 2 pots (CP5111) to the rear, and instead of mounting the CP5111 on it, you mounted a CP5137 on it. I've got a bracket from BOE, which should function the same. Is there anything else you had to do to mount this caliper?

Did CP5137 fit on the bracket with no modifications?
Did you have to do anything to get CP5137 the proper distance from the center of the rotor?
Did you use the same 288 mm factory rotors?
Did you re-use the brake line from the factory rear calipers?
What wheels? LSS? If so, 3mm spacer?

thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by realrundell View Post
The AP CP5317 is indeed the caliper I now have. I purchased them a few years back from eliseparts.com . My mounting brackets were from Sector111, but there were a couple other places that had them as well. I just switched my existing brake hoses from the Brembo calipers to the AP calipers. Just carefully reroute the hose. I drained all the fluid from the Brembos and installed a bleeder screw where the hose previously attached(to keep dirt out). The beauty is that you use the same pads on all four corners. I've never been a fan of staggering brake pad compounds in racing or on the street. For street you are just band-aiding a base brake issue and in racing I consider it a bit dangerous and unpredictable. Different compounds heat up at different rates and cool at different rates which means you may have nice balance just as the sweet spots cross, but then the balance leaves as temps continue to change.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #99 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Formulabob View Post
Maybe VisualEchos quest is not as difficult as we initially thought.

Bob L
I'm not ashamed to admit that this entire thread is over my head. Seems like it's difficult to do what I want (OEM 308mm BBK front and rear), and maybe not desirable, but that never stopped me before.

What I really need is a contact at AP Racing so I can call and just ask the questions, they probably know all the part numbers, and how everything fits already.

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post #100 of 178 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 01:20 PM
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AP 2-pot

No mods to mount the other caliper. I used the factory original brake line. Stock rotors-you will need a fresh pair for the rear as the pad swept area is larger than the Brembo. No spacing of the caliper is needed. The calipers will not clear the LSS wheels without a 3mm spacer( told Shinoo to add that to his notes). They will clear Cup wheels with no spacers.
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