Who's running 2 pot calipers front and rear? - Page 9 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #161 of 178 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
So update to this thread, I ended up putting on the CP5316 (so the smaller calipers) and running the same pads front and back.

First impressions below, I took a conservative approach because I've not made a change like this before:

1. Pedal feel is consistent with stock
2. I can definitely slow the car down more effectively
3. Effect of #2 is that I was consistently overslowing the car based on muscle memory
4. Much easier to get ABS before everything is warmed up

Overall impressions very positive, looking forward to learning the new setup.
This is about exactly my experience after installing the smaller caliper in the rear. I did experience ice mode once and I think that was due to tires not being warm enough, was a much shorter ice mode than I've had on the stock setup and it auto corrected quickly without me having to adjust pedal pressure. I can now really work on less braking to go faster.
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post #162 of 178 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:15 PM
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My setup:
CP5317 with Carbotech XP10 pads in the front
Stock AP calipers with XP8 pads in the rear.

Progressive and intuitive feel. No ice mode.
Love it!

Black/Silver 60th Anniv Elise
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post #163 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 03:09 AM
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I'm looking at doing this when winter comes.
Question regarding brake codes. i want to mount them trailing so I want a RHT and a LHT. Does this mean I need one 3SO and one 2SO to make a set?
Not sure how this reads.

Thx

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My setup:
CP5317 with Carbotech XP10 pads in the front
Stock AP calipers with XP8 pads in the rear.

Progressive and intuitive feel. No ice mode.
Love it!

Stay Tuned.....
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post #164 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 10:35 AM Thread Starter
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Whoever you're planning on buying from is who you should review this with. LHL and RHT are often the same caliper, so a 2 and a 3 are likely appropriate.

I'm not sure why anyone would reduce the braking force up front though, that seems backward to me (5317 on front).

Lead time is measured in months unless you order from a reseller that happens to have a few laying around.

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post #165 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 04:50 PM
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Yes. You need 2SO and 3SO.
I got mine here:
https://www.tmsmotorsport.co.uk/inde...scription=true
Long wait but good deal.
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post #166 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-19-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would reduce the braking force up front though, that seems backward to me (5317 on front).
My mechanic messed it up. But for whatever reason with my choice of pads this setup works well.

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post #167 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 08:41 AM
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HiSpec Ultralite2 rear calipers

This has been a work in progress for a while... and I finally had a chance to test them.

As an alternative to the AP calipers in the rear, I decided to try a pair of HiSpec Ultralite2 calipers. They have several piston options - I elected for the 38.6mm pistons. The calipers are light... more-so than the AP calipers. I don't have a weight, sorry.

To mount them, I used a pair of modified EliseParts brackets. ~2.5mm spacers were required between the bracket & knuckle. 4.5mm spacers were needed to achieve the proper radial spacing. After receiving them with pads I ordered from HiSpec, the pads are nearly identical in shape to the 2-piston AP pads, i.e., it's feasible to run the same pads front and rear. You'll need to remove a small amount of material (2.5mm) from under the heads of the hex head cap screws to keep them from hitting the axles due to the 2.5mm spacers between the bracket and knuckle.

Brake lines: I used a male-male M10x1.0 "metric convex seat" to -3AN adapter at the chassis connection. I used a -3AN Wilwood hose from the inboard attachment to a -3AN to M10 banjo fitting adapter (from Pegasusautoracing.com) and an M10x1.0 banjo bolt (also from Pegasus) with copper washers on each side of the banjo fitting.

I elected to remove the stock calipers and forgo parking brakes. I previously had an S2000 with a similar setup, so I'm use to not having a parking brake.

The good: cheap caliper option, able to use the same pads front and rear, minor modifications requires with existing caliper adapter brackets (BOE or EP), relatively simple hose adapters, good piston size option

The bad: here's where it gets a little iffy... I have one caliper that doesn't want to release after braking force is applied. This resulted in the caliper temperature being ~100F higher than the opposite side. It makes an annoying sound due to running track pads and will ultimately result in increased wear and slower lap times due to constant friction being applied. I need to dissect the caliper to investigate why this is happening. HiSpec doesn't have the best reviews... maybe this is why. I'm already working on a more elegant non-AP option using different calipers. More to come on that front, though I work pretty slowly these days.

Pictures... because that's what everyone wants to see...

AP 2-piston pad on left, HiSpec pad on right:


Modified EP bracket:


2.5mm spacer between bracket & knuckle:


4.5mm spacer between bracket & caliper:


Caliper spacing relative to rotor:


Inboard hose adapter:


Outboard hose attachment:


Mounted:

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post #168 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jdawson View Post
The bad: here's where it gets a little iffy... I have one caliper that doesn't want to release after braking force is applied. This resulted in the caliper temperature being ~100F higher than the opposite side. It makes an annoying sound due to running track pads and will ultimately result in increased wear and slower lap times due to constant friction being applied. I need to dissect the caliper to investigate why this is happening. HiSpec doesn't have the best reviews... maybe this is why. I'm already working on a more elegant non-AP option using different calipers. More to come on that front, though I work pretty slowly these days.

Pictures... because that's what everyone wants to see...
While I'm no expert on brakes I think there are at least a couple things going against you. I think you're using too many spacers to make this work and that can make enough difference in the pad not releasing properly or hanging up enough to cause more friction. This could also make the caliper fail or not function properly and all you'll end up seeing is a caliper that you need to keep rebuilding or replacing. The other thing I see is the cotter pin does not look to be in the proper location, I'm not sure if this caliper is designed this way or if you just made it work/fit and that is where it ended up going.
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post #169 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by LostPawn View Post
While I'm no expert on brakes I think there are at least a couple things going against you. I think you're using too many spacers to make this work and that can make enough difference in the pad not releasing properly or hanging up enough to cause more friction. This could also make the caliper fail or not function properly and all you'll end up seeing is a caliper that you need to keep rebuilding or replacing. The other thing I see is the cotter pin does not look to be in the proper location, I'm not sure if this caliper is designed this way or if you just made it work/fit and that is where it ended up going.
The cotter pins are HiSpec design and installed the only way they'll work to secure the pads. The pins only secure the radial motion of the pads and are not in the load path for braking forces.

How would spacers affect the function of the calipers? Companies like Wilwood sell shim kits to do just what I've done. Each stack of washers was measured to provide the same total spacer thickness and minimize warping of the caliper.

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post #170 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-20-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawson View Post
The cotter pins are HiSpec design and installed the only way they'll work to secure the pads. The pins only secure the radial motion of the pads and are not in the load path for braking forces.

How would spacers affect the function of the calipers? Companies like Wilwood sell shim kits to do just what I've done. Each stack of washers was measured to provide the same total spacer thickness and minimize warping of the caliper.
The washers may not affect anything and if you measured well enough they likely do not. I don't think they would warp the caliper but could provide some deflection under use that could change the angles enough to make a piston hang up slightly when retracting. Looking again at you're pictures you're only using one shim where the caliper mounts to the hub so unlikely that would be an issue.

The cotter pins look to be installed correctly but I usually see them on the outside of the caliper frame, not where they could come into contact with the back of the brake pad. Again this maybe a non issue but there is potential the cotter pin could contact the back of a pad in such a way to affect how it retracts after releasing the brake pedal. The cotter pin is to keep the locating pin from backing out of the caliper, if that pin were to start backing out the cotter pin would hit the back of the brake pad from the looks of your pictures.
EDIT: Looked again at your pic and their website, the pins insert from the back of the caliper... I don't think the pin trying to back out would cause any issue and it doesn't look like they can move any more the other direction.

I'm guessing neither of these are actually the issue you are describing and I'd still look at the caliper you think is not functioning correctly. Just a couple of items that I'd double check while you're dissembling anyway.

Last edited by LostPawn; 09-20-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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post #171 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-23-2019, 11:48 AM
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Anyone tried mounting Hi Spect spot caliper for a parking brake?
Any other options out there?

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post #172 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 03:44 PM
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I’m piecing together a 2 pot rear upgrade. So far I have ordered a set of boe brackets and some c5317 calipers from TMS over in the UK. For those of you who have completed the upgrade what else do I need other than brake pads? I’m reading that I may need a banjo fitting ? Do I need the entire line if so where can I source one? Any other bolts or washers I need? @turbophil

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post #173 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-29-2019, 12:06 PM
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Are you using the stock rotors in in this conversion?
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post #174 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 02:01 PM
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I bought a set of parking brake calipers from a guy that makes them for the OE mounting position. His name is Frank Jakos and he can be reached at roverstuff[[at]]comcast.net. Then it's just a matter of using the AP calipers in the relocated position (e.g., using BOE brackets).

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post #175 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
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I’m piecing together a 2 pot rear upgrade. So far I have ordered a set of boe brackets and some c5317 calipers from TMS over in the UK. For those of you who have completed the upgrade what else do I need other than brake pads? I’m reading that I may need a banjo fitting ? Do I need the entire line if so where can I source one? Any other bolts or washers I need? @turbophil
If you want to be able to use both bleeder screws (one for each piston), then you will need a brake hose with a 10mm banjo fitting on the caliper end, as the brake fluid "input port" on the inboard cylinder faces directly at the rear shock/spring assembly. You can use any brake line intended for the factory 2008+ Exige S 240/260 4-pot front calipers, as they are the correct length and fitting type. Available both from BOE and some of the UK Lotus shops (as well as Lotus).

If you want to go quick and dirty, some have plugged the input port with a bleeder screw and just connected the stock hose to where the inboard bleeder screw was.

You will also need slightly shorter caliper bolts, but these can be sourced at any local hardware store that carries metric socket head bolts (once you figure out the correct length). You will also want to ease-up on the torque spec for the caliper bolts, as most of the 2-pot mounting brackets are made out of aluminum (the stock front caliper bolts go into steel uprights). Lock-Tite is your friend...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LionZoo View Post
I bought a set of parking brake calipers from a guy that makes them for the OE mounting position. His name is Frank Jakos and he can be reached at roverstuff[[at]]comcast.net. Then it's just a matter of using the AP calipers in the relocated position (e.g., using BOE brackets).
LionZoo, please post a picture of your parking brake...

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Last edited by Fireball; 09-30-2019 at 05:46 PM.
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post #176 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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you don't have to worry about torque settings with BOE caliper bracket, they have steel threads. They also come spec'd with regular brake lines, with a banjo fitting adapter for the ends, so there's also that route if you want to re-use your existing lines, but also use both bleed screws on the new calipers.

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post #177 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 07:13 PM
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Here you go:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgPAAfLFNJV/
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post #178 of 178 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 08:49 PM
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those look a lot like these:

https://ipsco.org/

https://ipsco.org/Custom%20Services/Parking%20Brake.htm
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