Wishbone bushing comparison - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 06:27 PM
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I've got PowerFlex in all the wishbones on my 05. I really don't notice much difference between these and the rubber bushings. Maybe a very slight decrease in the time it takes to settle from transient maneuvers. There is very little rubber in the stock bushings, they are made up of mostly plastic sleeve. So they are really pretty stiff, for a stock car. There's much more urethane in the replacement bushings, no plastic sleeve.

On a reliability note, I've had a set of urethane bushings in my RX-7 for 20 years, no joke. They haven't ever needed lubrication and are as tight as they were when new. Granted, I only use the car on nice days.

My MR2 has them throughout as well. They were on the car when I bought it a couple of years ago. That car has been on the track, driven through the rain regularly, and has no garage space. It too has no suspension noises and the bushes haven't needed greasing, the ball joints in the sway bar links have, though.

All I can say as far as a recommendation is that if you are looking to stay close to stock in shock absorption, this would be a reasonable choice. I've never been in a car with monoballs for comparison.

Last edited by me73; 12-18-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 12-18-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamBatman View Post
Those look just like the sector111 monoballs.
close in concept, but different in details of execution.
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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 08:50 AM
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Finally getting around to doing the bushings on my car. (Ended up going with SuperPro Polyurethane Bushings because its a street car).

If you are going to do this, I highly recommend getting/borrowing the bushing removal tool. Yes I know you can do this with two different sockets, if you bite your tongue just right, find the correct length bolt, bla bla bla.

This tool not only makes the job easier, but faster also.

I used the bwr tool, but I have seen other from other companies and they all look pretty similar.

If you are in the Denver area, I have one that I can loan now.

Apexes are a lot like relationships. So tough to get right, so easy to see where they went wrong.

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by doug_porsche View Post
Finally getting around to doing the bushings on my car. (Ended up going with SuperPro Polyurethane Bushings because its a street car).

If you are going to do this, I highly recommend getting/borrowing the bushing removal tool. Yes I know you can do this with two different sockets, if you bite your tongue just right, find the correct length bolt, bla bla bla.

This tool not only makes the job easier, but faster also.

I used the bwr tool, but I have seen other from other companies and they all look pretty similar.

If you are in the Denver area, I have one that I can loan now.
I commented in a thread of Gunpilot's that I liked the design of the Superpro more than the Powerflex bushings. I put up a pic of the Superpro bush to show the differences. I have the Superpro bushings sitting on a shelf to replace the Powerflex parts, but I probably won't do it for another year or so. One thing I'm contemplating is coating the bush and crush washer with CRC's graphite dry lube before installation. I have used it on rubber parts and it flexes and sticks to the rubber nicely. This in addition to the normal grease and the Superpro knurled bush may allow for a lifetime lubrication solution.

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 11:57 AM
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I installed MonoBalls in my street/track Elise recently. Frankly, I didn't notice much difference in ride quality.

Installation was a LOT of work, too much to comment on here. I am going to try to do a workup soon.

Removal and installation of bushings is super easy with the "tool". I think I got mine from Eliseparts in the UK. it works great.

The biggest hassle is that if you install the new bushing's housing flush with the arm end, the end of the new bushing itself, not the housing, may be a different distance from the end of the arm itself than the old busing end.

If you measure the offset from the old bushing end to the arm end and then duplicate that with the new bushings, it will save HOURS in trying to fit the arms to the car.

I FIGURED THIS OUT ON THE LAST ARM!!

2006 Elise, Graphite Grey/Red leather, Sport Elise Suspension, Cup airbox, ECU ref lash, MonoBalls, etc. etc.
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Old stuff gone: Ferrari 275GTB/4, '69 1275 Cooper S. '72 500 Fiat, old Jags, etc. Never bought a boring car.
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by apexdc View Post
I installed MonoBalls in my street/track Elise recently. Frankly, I didn't notice much difference in ride quality.

Installation was a LOT of work, too much to comment on here. I am going to try to do a workup soon.

Removal and installation of bushings is super easy with the "tool". I think I got mine from Eliseparts in the UK. it works great.

The biggest hassle is that if you install the new bushing's housing flush with the arm end, the end of the new bushing itself, not the housing, may be a different distance from the end of the arm itself than the old busing end.

If you measure the offset from the old bushing end to the arm end and then duplicate that with the new bushings, it will save HOURS in trying to fit the arms to the car.

I FIGURED THIS OUT ON THE LAST ARM!!

Can you say that one more time? Sounds a bit confusing in this post.
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 12:38 PM
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I used, probably too much, Mobil 1 synthetic on mine. Everything I have read says this stuff is poly friendly.

This is not a quick job. Seems like every nut and bolt is given 1/8 of an inch clearance.

putting the shims back on the upper fronts was, hmmm, fun!

Apexes are a lot like relationships. So tough to get right, so easy to see where they went wrong.

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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2014, 01:53 PM
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Can you say that one more time? Sounds a bit confusing in this post.
Sorry, I understand. I'll post the whole install later with pictures.


2006 Elise, Graphite Grey/Red leather, Sport Elise Suspension, Cup airbox, ECU ref lash, MonoBalls, etc. etc.
1992 900SS Ducati Race Spec Built by Ferracci
2006 KTM 950 SuperMoto, a work in progress

Old stuff gone: Ferrari 275GTB/4, '69 1275 Cooper S. '72 500 Fiat, old Jags, etc. Never bought a boring car.
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 09:45 AM
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Here's some pictures of the stock bushing, the superpro bushing and the powerflex bushing side by side.

First picture: Stock top, Superpro Middle, Powerflex bottom
Second Picture: Superpro on top of the Powerflex, showing the inner diameter difference.
Third Picture: Superpro crush tube left, Powerflex right

Notice that the stock bushing has a plastic outer tube and a steel inner crush tube. The Powerflex bush has the same size crush tube as the stock bushing but no plastic sleeve, leaving more material in the joint than the stock rubber bushings. The Powerflex bushing is longer than the crush tube. This forces the bushing to compress axially when installed into the chassis. It makes installation challenging.

The Superpro has a larger outer diameter crush tube so there is less flexible material than the Powerflex. It's about the same thickness of material as the stock bushing. The Superpro has a knurled internal surface which is supposed to retain grease for a much longer service life than other smooth bushings. The bushings are a 2-piece design that, when installed, is the same length as the crush tube. The bushing slides into place more easily than the Powerflex does.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 10:33 AM
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for the comparo pic.

So why is it exactly that you're planning on changing the Powerflex for the Superpro's?

because racecar
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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 10:52 AM
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for the comparo pic.

So why is it exactly that you're planning on changing the Powerflex for the Superpro's?
Mainly the grease retention and reduced damping material for more road feel are the reasons I am going to try out the Superpros.
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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:42 AM
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I got the Sector 111 mono-balls a couple years ago. They work great. No complaints here at all.
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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:42 AM
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Sorry, I understand. I'll post the whole install later with pictures.



I think I get what you mean now. When you put the bushing into the A-arm, you may have to shift it a little left or right in order to get them to slide back into the frame correctly.
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:43 AM
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I got the Sector 111 mono-balls a couple years ago. They work great. No complaints here at all.


Did you have to freeze yours the night before? I got a set almost half a year ago but couldn't find the time to install them yet.
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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 11:59 AM
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the problem with mono-balls is they wear out half way through a busy track season. The delrin alternatives will last a lot longer and offer similar accuracy.

The Delrin alternatives are a good bit easier to install as well. Available at BWR, DRS, and EP to name a few...

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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 12:38 PM
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Did you have to freeze yours the night before? I got a set almost half a year ago but couldn't find the time to install them yet.
I froze them and heated the a-arms with a torch. Then I broke two table vices trying to install them. I went and bought a 2-ton press. Now that's the tool for the job. At $200 it's a great tool to have.

I only auto-x (religiously) and and drive the street. I've have zero issue with the balls.
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 12:39 PM
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 12:51 PM
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I froze them and heated the a-arms with a torch. Then I broke two table vices trying to install them. I went and bought a 2-ton press. Now that's the tool for the job. At $200 it's a great tool to have.

I only auto-x (religiously) and and drive the street. I've have zero issue with the balls.


How many miles have you had on them? Sounds like you haven't had any issues at all!
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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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I've put about 8k miles on them. Yep, no issues. One thing I like about them is that you can press them into the arms so that they fit your chassis perfectly. Basically, as apexdc is describing, the interface between the chassis and the a-arms is not always the same car to car so there needs to be some way to adjust the location of the bushing in the arm. The stock bushings are so easy to move it doesn't matter, they'll just self adjust. If you can't adjust what ever one you use, there either will be play or it will put stress on the chassis as you force the arm to fit and then tighten the bolts.

It's kind of hard to describe.
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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 09-26-2014, 02:22 PM
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I totally understand. Because the stock bushings allow it to move around in the A-Arm, it doesn't matter much to get it perfect. The monoballs are solid aluminum so you have to get it on the a-arm perfectly or else there will be stress on the frame since it is not free moving in the a-arm.
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