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post #41 of 314 (permalink) Old 11-15-2010, 11:16 PM Thread Starter
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I don't want to make up answers, because I don't know really.

But, since the boot is behind the engine, and not directly behind the passenger cabin I don't know if any sound resonating in the boot would make the sound level greater than what the engine already produces directly behind the passenger cabin.

I have debated placing some strips of dampener along the sides of the rear clam, but thought I would wait on this until I had done the doors and rear bulkhead, since I am a bit skeptical that I could perceive any changes doing that....but hey, I could be way wrong...but if the other sound insulation was enough for what I wanted, then I wasn't planning on trying to kill any resonance in the boot.

At some point I think that once I have the major sounds isolated and vibrations dampened, it will probably take a lot of extra material (i.e. weight) to make much greater improvement...but again, this is somewhat unchartered territory, so this assumption too may be incorrect.

2009 Saffron Yellow Elise Purist Edition - Unpurified (oem cupholder, leather tunnel cover, and black door panels), Difflow 5 element railer JR, Janspeed Stage II Exhaust, ongoing sound proofing project, kahtec blinking 3rd brake light.
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post #42 of 314 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 04:34 AM
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Thanks, MTribe.

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Originally Posted by MTribe View Post
- small damping sheet and tiny bit of sound barrier in door skins
- a couple pieces of sound barrier inside body near intake if you have the cup box
Any tips on those two places? Do I just take the inside door panel off and it will become obvious where to stick it? And for the intake, did you do that on the firewall?

Thanks in advance!
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post #43 of 314 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 04:46 AM
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A) this should be a sticky - just sayin'

B) I've thought about the boot, too. I can hear things (my briefcase handle) in there at lower speeds, and any empty box might resonate, so even though it's behind, it could be "shaking"/resonating especially during deceleration, or when hitting a bump.

I am still waiting for my interior parts (complete leather and carpet) to arrive, and when I've got the inside apart and seats out, will be installing the foam plus all of psoup's mods.

Of course, that additional weight may well necessitate additional power
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post #44 of 314 (permalink) Old 11-16-2010, 05:54 AM Thread Starter
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Zuspiel,

I took the doors apart over the weekend, but once I got them apart it was a tighter space to work in than I had originally anticipated, and it seemed like the overkill foam was going to be difficult to apply since it does not have the adhesive backing. I did install some damplifier to the door, and plan on getting some dynaliner and add that to the door as well since it has a sticky back and should be easier to apply; I will cut it into 6 inch strips or so and apply it in pieces. You could do the same with the overkill foam, just in strips, but it just seemed a bit of a PITA since you can't do the peel-stick-peel method and it will want to stick to everything going in.

However, since you are headed down this road sooner than I will probably get the doors done, I will share my experience so far with doing the doors, and you can post your impressions once you have done yours.

Door upholstery removal is dones as follows.
1) Remove the screws along the top of the door trim.
2) There is a small black screw rivet expander thingy that is located along the front margin of the door panel just anterior and inferior to the door handle, unscrew this about 3/8 inch and then pull the whole thing out as a unit.
3) There are two velcro pieces at the bottom of the door, working from the front gently pry the panel from the velcro. Do not pry the panel at the rear because there is a retaining clip there you might break.
4) Once everything else is free, the panel will only be held in the bottom back corner, slide the panel backwards to disengage the retaining clip.
5) Unplug the power window switch. (Just make sure to plug it back in when reassembling the door....Yeah, don't ask )
6) There is a clear plastic covering the door hole opening, it is adfixed with this clear silicone like stuff. You can very carefully pull the plastic free of the adhesive and leave the adhesive in place or stuck to the plastic. When reassembling reuse the plastic and adhesive; I plan to replace this with construction plastic when I do the dynaliner because I ripped it on accident.

Now that the door is exposed, you can insulate away. So far what I have done is to cut 3" strips of damplifier and place them along the length of the door; realistically I should have placed the strips higher up on the door panel, I did them a bit low. I also placed a 6x6" square of damplifier near the back of the door panel right above the 3" strips.

When I get the dynaliner, I plan to pull the door apart again, and put 1/4" dynaliner over the outside door surface, and maybe even the insider fiberglass panel, it's really pretty light stuff.

With just the damplifier, I did not appreciate much of a change in the ride quality....maybe a little less door rattle over bumps, but not a real big difference. I expect that the dynaliner (or overkill foam if you want to use that) should help quite a bit. I have noticed a lot more noise from cars traveling next to me since doing the other soundproofing, and I expect insulating the doors should help in this regard.

First picture is just the door exposed for reference, second picture shows the damplifier strips in place.

Once I get the dynaliner in place I will post further impressions.
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2009 Saffron Yellow Elise Purist Edition - Unpurified (oem cupholder, leather tunnel cover, and black door panels), Difflow 5 element railer JR, Janspeed Stage II Exhaust, ongoing sound proofing project, kahtec blinking 3rd brake light.
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post #45 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 05:50 AM
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I added this to the uberpost. Keep the info/pics coming!

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post #46 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 07:44 AM
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I wanted to add to this post on intake noise. I removed the snorkel and added the TRD intake which resulted in much more intake noise to the point of being bothersome. I applied some sound deadening material to the rear clam in the area just inside the air intake on the surfaces that abut the interior. This noticeably reduced the intake noise in the cabin.

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post #47 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 11:49 AM
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Thumbs up

psoup, thanks a lot for the door info. Sorry for the late reply. Somehow I never got a post notification...

I did a bunch of insulating two weeks ago but then was out of town again.

I started with the undertray and, while there, noticed that the diffusor is also prone to vibration. So I did both and the first pic shows where I put it. I was a bit concerned about exhaust heat, that's why I ended up with this pattern. No idea how valid that concern is, though. it's supposed to withstand 550F...

Next, I tackled the firewall. I put damplifier on all flat surfaces (2nd pic) and then covered them with Luxury liner. I cut the corner pieces off the original Touring pack foam and put only those back (in the big holes on the sides). Since I also upgraded the speakers at the same time, I also put some damplifier on the inside of the plastic firewall cover to preclude any rattles on that front.

Then I put both damplifier and luxury liner on the tank wall and the floor. That made the floor *much* more solid. I think there's a significant advantage of glueing down the luxury liner. Road noise is pretty much gone...

Since the liner is rather thick, I left some space (3rd pic) around the carpet buttons.

I sure added some weight to the car, but it's my DD and I spend a bunch of time on the freeway. These mods have made a huge difference in noise levels. I compared it this week against the (stock Touring pack) Exige my boss drives. Mine is now much quieter. When cruising on the freeway, wind noise is now pretty much the main source of noise. Some might complain that the engine is not as in-your-face anymore, but when you hit the gas, you can still hear it quite nicely

Thanks again psoup!

This weekend, I'll do the doors and then I'll call it done.
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post #48 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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The wind noise is the main source of noise I have noticed too. I have an idea but haven't tried it yet. I am going to buy some of the 3/8 inch overkill pro foam then take the soft top off and make a paper template of the factory roof liner, then cut the overkill foam to match. Then I will just slip the overkill foam between the roof and roof liner, and reinstall the softtop. I think this will help a lot. I'll post updates once I get this all done. The only thing I don't know about is how much of tge wind noise is simply air against the soft top vs air that might be forced between the seals of the door, roof, and windscreen. I guess I'll find out.

Also the overkill foam is pretty light compared to luxury liner, but is not nearly as efficient. I guess one could try the same approach with the luxury liner Pro which would cut nearly 100 of noise, but it would weight like 5 times as much and I worry the thickness and stiffness might interfere with the seals.

Also as I've done more research, I am not convinced that Damplifier will help much in the doors for 2 reasons. First the curvy shape itself is a structural dampened and fiberglass is not nearly as resonate as aluminum. I didn't notice much of a change when I did the doors. However some good closed or mixed cell foam such as DYNALINER (sticky back and lighter) vs overkill (not self stick so have to use adhesive but by tech specs should be more efficient) should help isolate door noise nicely. I'm not going to remove the Damplifier when I do the doors cuz it is pretty light already and Maybe it had some effect

Zuspiel thanks for the pics and ideas. I've been thinking about how to do the footwells too, I might try something similar. The only question I had about the lux liner pro was if it would get compressed and smashed by feet on it. Although I would expect it to still work just with some degree of decreased efficiency.

2009 Saffron Yellow Elise Purist Edition - Unpurified (oem cupholder, leather tunnel cover, and black door panels), Difflow 5 element railer JR, Janspeed Stage II Exhaust, ongoing sound proofing project, kahtec blinking 3rd brake light.
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post #49 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psoup View Post
The wind noise is the main source of noise I have noticed too. I have an idea but haven't tried it yet. I am going to buy some of the 3/8 inch overkill pro foam then take the soft top off and make a paper template of the factory roof liner, then cut the overkill foam to match. Then I will just slip the overkill foam between the roof and roof liner, and reinstall the softtop. I think this will help a lot. I'll post updates once I get this all done. The only thing I don't know about is how much of tge wind noise is simply air against the soft top vs air that might be forced between the seals of the door, roof, and windscreen. I guess I'll find out.
Actually, I don't think it's necessarily the soft top. I have a hard top on mine and get plenty of wind noise. I think I'll have a close look at the window seals when I open up the doors this WE. Might need a bit of shimming. I might experiment with sealing some gaps with masking tape and seeing (well, listening) which spots cause the noise.

I'll probably insulate the hardtop before the unbearable summer rolls around, also to reduce the heat load on the AC... Just don't feel like messing with making a headliner look good at the moment...

Quote:
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Zuspiel thanks for the pics and ideas. I've been thinking about how to do the footwells too, I might try something similar. The only question I had about the lux liner pro was if it would get compressed and smashed by feet on it. Although I would expect it to still work just with some degree of decreased efficiency.
You're welcome. The liner compresses somewhat, but with both the carpet and the vinyl side of it distributing the load, I don't think it's too bad. And it would only be right where your heels rest...

Oh, and something I forgot to mention in my post above:
If you have carpet under the seats, I'd leave the driver side carpet out after installing the lux liner. The bottom of the seat pan seems to rub the carpet in mine. I'll take it out next time I remove the driver seat.
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post #50 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 03:18 PM
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Great thread!!! I think the most obnoxious noise is tire noise coming from behind the seats, so I like the firewall modifications.

Make sure your windows are properly adjusted. I eliminated a lot of wind noise by making sure I had a good seal...particularly with the top front windshield frame.
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post #51 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregbj8 View Post
I wanted to add to this post on intake noise. I removed the snorkel and added the TRD intake which resulted in much more intake noise to the point of being bothersome. I applied some sound deadening material to the rear clam in the area just inside the air intake on the surfaces that abut the interior. This noticeably reduced the intake noise in the cabin.
Good To know. Someone earlier had asked about insulating the rear clam, nice to hear results from someone that did.

I know another common area for owners of other cars to insulate is the wheel arches. Probably a foam like overkill or DYNALINER would work well here. This works well if the wheel road noise is excessive.

Also, I recently installed a stage 2 exhaust and it is a bit on the load side again, but I have not pulled the rear bulkhead to insulate that yet, so I'm hoping that will bring things back in check.

Zuspiel, one question. Does your car seem to go thud on bumps instead of the rattle noise. This was something I have observed but have always wondered if that was real or just me making it up since it was noise not rattle that sent me down this path and I can't go back and compare to my un-dampened car now.



2009 Saffron Yellow Elise Purist Edition - Unpurified (oem cupholder, leather tunnel cover, and black door panels), Difflow 5 element railer JR, Janspeed Stage II Exhaust, ongoing sound proofing project, kahtec blinking 3rd brake light.
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post #52 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 05:29 PM
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Make sure your windows are properly adjusted. I eliminated a lot of wind noise by making sure I had a good seal...particularly with the top front windshield frame.
Thanks for the tip on what area to pay attention to! I was wondering if there was a "known" place...

Quote:
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Zuspiel, one question. Does your car seem to go thud on bumps instead of the rattle noise. This was something I have observed but have always wondered if that was real or just me making it up since it was noise not rattle that sent me down this path and I can't go back and compare to my un-dampened car now.


Yes, the rattle seems to be tamed :-)
That was the main thing my boss remarked on when he rode in it. I wouldn't call it a "thud", but at least it doesn't sound like the car is falling apart when you change lanes... ;-) We'll do his Exige soon (probably only the undertray and diffusor as a first step). Then we should have proof whether those cause that awful sound...
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post #53 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 07:51 PM
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Keep in mind the footwell corrosion issue from many moons ago when non-breathable floor mats were installed on the Elise.

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post #54 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-07-2010, 09:33 PM
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Thanks! Didn't know about that... I'll have to keep an eye on that.
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post #55 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 04:45 PM
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Is the foam placed on top firewall by the Cobra emitter? Clearly not on top of the square Cobra module, but the surrounding area - does it affect the waves that bounce back?

Great write-up!
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post #56 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 05:03 PM
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This thread gets better and better. I finally got my bulkhead insulation - Purist's don't have it - but am waiting for interior parts and full carpet to arrive before pulling the seats to get everything installed. I had a feeling it would be tight under the passenger seat with everything, so will watch that and decide about the carpet. One question, here's a pic of my bulkhead foam, which looks different than what I've seen for sale on here, but it's a Lotus factory part. Does anyone else have black like this instead of the yellow/tan? (note the prominent "do not bend" labels - there's one at each end).
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post #57 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 06:40 PM
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Is the foam placed on top firewall by the Cobra emitter? Clearly not on top of the square Cobra module, but the surrounding area - does it affect the waves that bounce back?

Great write-up!
Thanks!

I don't think so. I cut out the Luxury liner the same way as the Damplifier in the pic. After it was glued on, I checked that the red light was coming on when I waved my hand. Worked as usual. Now, I don't know if the damplifier that I put on the inside of the plastic "luggage tray" does anything to hinder the sensor. I'll have to try setting off the alarm to check that...
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post #58 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 06:44 PM
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One question, here's a pic of my bulkhead foam, which looks different than what I've seen for sale on here, but it's a Lotus factory part. Does anyone else have black like this instead of the yellow/tan?
The one I took out of my car was black and looked just like the pic you posted. I cut off the two end pieces and that's all I put back. I think the main reason that piece is not that effective is because it doesn't have a "mass layer". It's only foam.
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post #59 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 07:00 PM
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Thanks!

I don't think so. I cut out the Luxury liner the same way as the Damplifier in the pic. After it was glued on, I checked that the red light was coming on when I waved my hand. Worked as usual. Now, I don't know if the damplifier that I put on the inside of the plastic "luggage tray" does anything to hinder the sensor. I'll have to try setting off the alarm to check that...
Thanks! Do you have a pic of the backside of the luggage tray to show how much of it you have covered in damplifier? Thanks!
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post #60 of 314 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 09:33 PM
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Did you guys just the dampening material to the fiberglass portion of the firewall right behind the seats? Did it it considering it is not right on the metail behind it?
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