Seat Rebuild with Kemmler Air2Gel Foam - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 123 (permalink) Old 12-25-2006, 11:39 AM
Registered User
 
peck555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: White Plains N.Y.
Posts: 2,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkSol
I received my Air2Gel form last evening.

I did the most rudimentary "stuff a folded piece on the existing seat" test and plunked my butt on top... It felt MUCH better... great stuff!

Looks like a Christmas/New Year's project to me

Edit: Actually I'm completely insane. I'm sitting on both pieces at work now in my "already pretty comfy" desk chair.

Piece1: 3/8" thick = 18.75 x 34.625 = 4.51 sf = 3.345 lbs.
Piece2: 1/8" thick = 26.25 x 32.625 = 5.95 sf = 1.425 lbs.
Total of 4.77 lbs. for both sheets.

I'm estimating a 3.0 lb. weight increase by performing this mod - but ohhh the feeling...
I need to do this myself...note to self...order the damn gel

Laser blue,biscuit, micro mirror, "Blue knob" ,HID lights,Euro LED rear lights,LED headlight rings,rear badge,blue starter button, replaced speakers,perma grin,
Club111 The Sith lord of the LB's loyal henchman
peck555 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 09:37 PM
purveyor of lightness
 
darkSol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leawood, KS
Posts: 4,054
Garage
Update: I cut and weighed the Air2Gel pieces and came up with 3.05 lbs for both seats.

It took about an hour to peel both seats open, flip their bladders down, position the Air2Gel pieces, glue them and seal them back up again.

I also found that spray painting the edges of the pieces black (before installing!) helped hide the Air2Gel tan color after completion. It's only visible if you pull up on the sides and are looking for it

They feel AMAZING.

I also reinstalled my center console/hvac cover - which I paint matched Graphite Grey... and mounted a flipdown cup holder to the right hand side. Looks awesome!

Pictures Saturday morning... I'm washing the floormats right now and think I'll try to do the sewing thing with the Lotus Sport patches before snapping pix...

.
d.a..v...i....d

David Thomas Stewart - [email protected]
2005 Midnight Silver Lotus Elise (www.darksol.com)
388hp (342whp) BOE RevX 1736lbs.

Last edited by darkSol; 01-05-2007 at 06:02 AM.
darkSol is offline  
post #23 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 10:19 PM
Probably Lurking
 
Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 3,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkSol
Update: I cut and weighed the Air2Gel pieces and came up with 3.05 lbs for both seats.
That's 1.6% heavier than your initial estimate. I'm cancelling my order.

-Shawn (2005 Elise) || New England Members of Lotus Ltd. (NEMOLL) - PM me to join local info list or NEMOLL || UberPost - Elise/Exige info: common problems/fixes, etc.

Last edited by Keeper; 01-06-2007 at 08:04 PM.
Keeper is offline  
 
post #24 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 07:26 PM
Registered User
 
peck555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: White Plains N.Y.
Posts: 2,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
That 1.6% heavier than your initial estimate. I'm cancelling my order.

Laser blue,biscuit, micro mirror, "Blue knob" ,HID lights,Euro LED rear lights,LED headlight rings,rear badge,blue starter button, replaced speakers,perma grin,
Club111 The Sith lord of the LB's loyal henchman
peck555 is offline  
post #25 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Probably Lurking
 
Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 3,099
I think I'll try to shed 0.03% of my body weight instead.

What are people using for adhesive?

-Shawn (2005 Elise) || New England Members of Lotus Ltd. (NEMOLL) - PM me to join local info list or NEMOLL || UberPost - Elise/Exige info: common problems/fixes, etc.
Keeper is offline  
post #26 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 08:17 PM
Registered User
 
BrianK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles (Highland Park)
Posts: 2,558
Not that it much matters, but I got some air2gel for the dune buggy... They convinced me to get the higher impact stuff which turned out to be a mistake. Not very comfortable at all - it's like sitting on cardboard.

So - I recomend the normal air2gel for all applications that involve your butt.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
BrianK is offline  
post #27 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 11:16 AM
Registered User
 
RegGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
I think I'll try to shed 0.03% of my body weight instead.

What are people using for adhesive?
Bump for adhesive, I'm getting ready to attack this project myself.
RegGuy is offline  
post #28 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Brian 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,494
originally posted by Brian 111:
Quote:
A few other details:

I used contact cement for the final assembly of my foam, the reattachment of the lumbar support and the leather. The upholstery was reattached with double-stick carpet tape. It will allow easy removal of the leather in case I want to tweak the seats later.

Pull the leather towards the center of the seat when reattaching it after moving the bladder. It will prevent wrinkles on the side bolsters.

I found that UPS type packing tape worked best to position the foam in place when experimenting. It comes off easily without damaging the foam, unlike duct tape, and holds well, unlike masking tape.
I used contact cement from a bottle with the brush attached to the cap because I could put it exactly where I wanted it. If you want to mask the seat and use a spray, 3M Super 77 will work well. I used it on a 914 restoration on large panels.
Brian 111 is offline  
post #29 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 11:51 AM
Registered User
 
RegGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,000
OK, so maybe Keeper and I should read. Thanks for the repost of the info.
RegGuy is offline  
post #30 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 12:45 PM
Probably Lurking
 
Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 3,099
LOL. I saw that, but was really looking for something specific that one could just ask for at the hardware store. Carpet tape, I have. Is all contact cement the same?

(I'm trying to idiot-proof this mod in post 17.)

-Shawn (2005 Elise) || New England Members of Lotus Ltd. (NEMOLL) - PM me to join local info list or NEMOLL || UberPost - Elise/Exige info: common problems/fixes, etc.
Keeper is offline  
post #31 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Brian 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,494
I think everything labeled as Contact Cement is the same. Hardware store, Home Depot, Staples... it's always worked the same for me.
Brian 111 is offline  
post #32 of 123 (permalink) Old 01-22-2007, 01:07 PM
Registered User
 
RegGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,000
Contact cement is much the same, there are two kinds, the latex and solvent based. The latex based can loosen if it gets wet, I'd tend toward the solvent based. It'll need a bit of time to not smell, but it'll be stronger over all.

Now if you haven't worked with contact cement, it means what it says, it bonds on contact. You get no second chance. If the piece bond crooked, they will stay crooked.

Use flat pieces of wood to separate until they are lined up and gently remove the wood separators and let the pieces come into contact. Press and you are done.

Contact cement is applied to both surfaces, a thin coat will do and when it is clear and dry you are good to go.
RegGuy is offline  
post #33 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 02:14 PM
Probably Lurking
 
Keeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 3,099
Apparently, there's some variation in what people are going with. From my understanding of my call with Kemmler:

According to Kemmler, Owners are generally using the 1/8" tan HD padding (double abraded for easy gluing on both sides)

Then one of the three:
  1. 3/8" Tan HD (recommended by Kemmler and demonstrated by Brian and the most common route for owners according to Kemmler)
  2. 3/8" White (softer, not recommended by itself by Kemmler)
  3. 3/8" Tan HD + 3/8" White (Kemmler suggested several have gone this route)

Any feedback from those who have performed this mod and tried the different setups?

-Shawn (2005 Elise) || New England Members of Lotus Ltd. (NEMOLL) - PM me to join local info list or NEMOLL || UberPost - Elise/Exige info: common problems/fixes, etc.

Last edited by Keeper; 03-03-2007 at 05:26 PM.
Keeper is offline  
post #34 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-01-2007, 11:19 PM
purveyor of lightness
 
darkSol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Leawood, KS
Posts: 4,054
Garage
I did option #1 - Tan 1/8" and Tan 3/8"



It's awesome!

.
d.a..v...i....d

David Thomas Stewart - [email protected]
2005 Midnight Silver Lotus Elise (www.darksol.com)
388hp (342whp) BOE RevX 1736lbs.

Last edited by darkSol; 03-08-2007 at 12:26 PM.
darkSol is offline  
post #35 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-02-2007, 10:49 AM
Registered User
 
Chococar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 2,206
I used duct tape & it is holding up great.
Chococar is offline  
post #36 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-03-2007, 05:56 AM
Registered User
 
Nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Campbell the capital of San Jose
Posts: 468
On adhesives

Found this website recently - here is the part on Adhesives
http://www.mcmaster.com/


About Adhesives

Definitions

Shear Strength— The force required to break items apart as they slide over one another.
Tensile Strength— Pulling force required to break items apart.
Types

Metal-Filled Epoxies (pages 3288-3289)— Uses: Bonding, sealing, plugging, patching, repair, and rebuilding worn and eroded metal back to original dimensions. Also called liquid metals, these are similar to regular epoxies with the addition of powdered metal fillers. They bond iron, aluminum, brass, ceramic, glass, and some plastics. Reach full strength relatively slowly, but can be machined afterwards. Nonrusting and resistant to most chemicals, water, and temperature.
Epoxies (pages 3290-3295)— Uses: Bonding, filling spaces between surfaces, laminating, and encasing items in adhesive (potting). One-part and two-part adhesives provide high-strength bonds to metal, rubber, fiberglass (FRP), urethane, wood, glass, ceramics, concrete, and some plastics. Time required to reach full strength can range from a few minutes to several hours. Good resistance to high temperatures, solvents, and impact. They're useful for filling spaces between surfaces when parts don't fit well.
Two-part epoxies require mixing, which begins the strengthening process and results in limited time to apply after mixing.
Acrylics (pages 3291-3292)— Uses: Bonding. These two-part and two-step adhesives begin to harden within minutes (sometimes seconds when used with an activator) and provide high-strength bonds; especially good for plastic to metal, rubber to metal, and plastic to plastic. Acrylics are more tolerant of moisture and oily, dirty, and unprepared surfaces than super glues. They're also good for filling spaces between surfaces, but not as good as epoxies. Two-part acrylics require mixing. Two-step acrylics don't need mixing, but are used with a primer/activator (usually a liquid) that's sprayed or brushed onto the surface being bonded.
Urethanes (pages 3291-3295)— Uses: Bonding. Urethanes form more flexible bonds than epoxies and acrylics, and are often used on films, foils, and elastomers. They bond well to metal, rubber, PVC, polycarbonate, and especially wood. Time required to begin to harden ranges from a few minutes to 48 hours.
Super Glues (pages 3296-3299)— Uses: Bonding closely mated parts where exposure to weather is minimal. Also referred to as cyanoacrylates, crazy glues, super bonders, and instant adhesives, these one-part adhesives begin to harden very quickly. They adhere to a wide range of substrates including rubber, plastic, and metal. Not recommended for use on glass. Viscosities range from water-thin liquids to gels. Super glues are not good for filling spaces between surfaces and have poor resistance to impact, temperature extremes, moisture, and solvents. A white residue called blooming can sometimes form on the bond.
Anaerobics (pages 3299-3303)— Uses: Locking threads, sealing, gasketing, bearing retention, and bonding/retaining cylindrical assemblies. Also called threadlockers and retaining compounds, anaerobics reach full strength in the absence of air and the presence of metal, such as when confined between the threads of a nut and bolt assembly. Bonds can be permanent or not, as needed. Excellent resistance to solvents, water, weather, and temperatures up to 400° F. They reach full strength rapidly at room temperature and come in various viscosities. When combined with other materials, they can be used as a sealant for pipe joints and threads. They have limited use for filling spaces between surfaces.
Silicones (pages 3304-3305)— Uses: Low-strength bonding, sealing, filling spaces between surfaces, encasing items in adhesive (potting), and gasketing. Most are one-component room-temperature vulcanizing (RTV) liquid rubbers that keep their rubber properties under almost any conditions. They reach full strength in 24-72 hours through exposure to moisture in the air. Excellent resistance to temperature extremes (-60° to +450° F), as well as chemicals, UV radiation, ozone, and weather. Silicones make great gap fillers and sealants for low-stress applications. They adhere to rigid and flexible substrates including metal, glass, fiberglass (FRP), cement, canvas, rubber, plastic, ceramics, and wood. Since they don't run, they're good for vertical and overhead applications.
Construction Adhesives (pages 3307-3308)— Uses: Installing paneling, drywall, foam, and flooring. Also called panel adhesives. Made of a viscous formulation of natural or synthetic rubber in a solvent or water carrier. They begin to harden quickly, are excellent for filling spaces between surfaces, and remain flexible when dry.
Contact Cements (pages 3309-3310)— Uses: Laminating and bonding. Made of synthetic rubber (usually neoprene) dispersed in a solvent or water, these cements form permanent bonds. Apply to the two surfaces you want to join and let air dry. Then, bring the surfaces together—they'll stick instantly.
Hot Melts (pages 3311-3312)— Uses: Bonding, sealing, filling spaces between surfaces, caulking, packaging, and parts holding for nailing and other final assembly. These thermoplastics melt when heated and solidify as they cool. Ideal for rigid-to-flexible, low-strength bonds that begin to harden quickly. They're excellent for filling spaces between surfaces. Good adhesion to most substrates, especially porous surfaces such as wood, paper, and leather. Hot melts have low solvent resistance, limited temperature resistance, and require dispensing equipment such as glue guns.
Other adhesives and related products: For aerosol adhesives, see page 3310; for caulks, see page 3306; for caulk guns, see page 3313; for adhesive dispensing tools and accessories, see pages 3314-3316.
Nick is offline  
post #37 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-03-2007, 07:31 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Brian 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,494
originally posted by darkSol:
Quote:
I did option #1 - Tan 1/8" and Tan 3/8"

It's awesome!
+1

originally posted by Chococar:
Quote:
I used duct tape & it is holding up great.
The tape I used appears to have been installed yesterday, but the work was done about a year ago.
Brian 111 is offline  
post #38 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Registered User
 
coulthard fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Miami Beach
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
Seat Rebuild with Kemmler Air2Gel Foam
  • (1) 1/2 roll of 3/8" Shocktec Air2Gel HD (Tan)
  • (1) 1/2 roll of 1/8" Shocktec Air2Gel HD (Tan)
OK, I'm confused. I thought Brian got the non-HD 1/8" Shocktec Air2Gel (White)???

Scott
Red 2005 "Elige S" rally and road course monster
http://racing.tax-whistleblower.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ScottKnott/featured
coulthard fan is offline  
post #39 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 12:20 PM
Registered User
 
Conan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,379
regarding the leather: Just pull it off and glue it back on?

Fast in, fast out.
2013 Mini Cooper S, 2007 Honda Odyssey (the wife's), gone: 2006 Elise
Conan is offline  
post #40 of 123 (permalink) Old 03-08-2007, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Brian 111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 1,494
originally posted by coulthard fan:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper
Seat Rebuild with Kemmler Air2Gel Foam
(1) 1/2 roll of 3/8" Shocktec Air2Gel HD (Tan)
(1) 1/2 roll of 1/8" Shocktec Air2Gel HD (Tan)
Quote:
OK, I'm confused. I thought Brian got the non-HD 1/8" Shocktec Air2Gel (White)???
Scott, you are correct. I was looking at the sizes only, not the HD/color in Keeper's post.

Not HD; tan 3/8, white 1/8 as in my pictures. My butt found the standard foam (just right) to be superior to the HD (too hard).
Brian 111 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Interior/Exterior

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome