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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
The sentiment is that way because the OP asked about legal liability. The dealer charges more because they have significantly higher overhead costs than a private party. People pay more for the reasons you cite - that dealers have the facilities and knowledge to check out the car and sell them something that has had qualified eyes look it over. That doesn't mean that they do, and it certainly doesn't mean that they are legally liable.

Does it mean they're crappy? Well yea, but that wasn't the question. What the dealer 'owes' is a matter of negotiation, as OP is clearly not going to use them in the future and already has damaged their reputation. If 'owes' is bound by the law, they probably don't owe anything, as the sale was as-is. If 'owes' is bound by good customer service, then they probably should compensate some how, but it sounds like the OP should already know what to expect based on car condition and the fact that they never returned his call.
We all know about the Pillow Talk during the sales process, but the truth is in the "AS-IS" disclosure which is what you're going to battle in court. $2,000 will get a couple letters passed back and forth with their attorney.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
...
Would be interested to hear from others what they think of the condition/migration of the bushings.
...
I don't have specific Lotus bushing experience... but those look fine to me.

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Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
...
One or more of the rotors was beyond the acceptable wear; the others just above (by a mm or less).
...
For reference new is 26mm, and minimum is 24mm... so "a mm" is 50%.

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Originally Posted by road racer View Post
...
The whole point of buying used from a dealer (and paying more) and not private party is that you shouldn't have to do a PPI.
Yes... but you are really paying more because there is backup is something actually goes wrong (engine failure etc) within a short time of you leaving the dealer. From this perspective I think the dealer should fix the AC, as they claimed it was working, but the other items are all service items (and not all necessary by the look of it).

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Originally Posted by road racer View Post
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My brother runs a tiny boutique used car dealership (no Lotus) and something like this would never ever get out of his shop.
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That is great to hear!!
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 08:48 PM
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My two cents: NEVER, EVER buy a car (any car, new or used) without an INDEPENDENT pre-purchase inspection! After getting a severely defective certified preowned Porsche, I did some pretty extensive research into cars marketed though dealers. They have gotten their monies worth from the lobby industry and it is truly staggering the shady practices that go on for new and used cars. I now try to buy from dealers that have checked out as trustworthy AND that will stand behind a problem. I also drive to the adjacent state that has a much better lemon law then my own. It's a pain, but no where near as much of a pain as the three years I have spent trying to resolve the $100,000 defective piece of crap Porsche with its 119 or whatever point inspection. (Thank you Jim Ellis Porsche and Porsche of North America).

Try and work out a fair resolution with the dealer directly. You may find they worry a lot more about negative social media and yelp type reviews then anything legal.
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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-15-2014, 09:08 PM
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Bushing migration is a know issue.
Lotus attempted to 'fix' it by putting the bushing in from the other direction on later cars.
I'd say it's an eventual wear/maintenance item, and you can either put new stock ones in every few years or put polyurethane ones or put in spherical bearings.
It's a 10 year old car now. Maybe it's a good time to do a full suspension refresh

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 04:01 AM
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Always do a PPI by independent shop. They do not call them stealers for nothing
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedo View Post
I don't have specific Lotus bushing experience... but those look fine to me.


For reference new is 26mm, and minimum is 24mm... so "a mm" is 50%.
So gaps between the bushing and the control are OK? What would you consider unacceptable migration, and what is your assessment based on?

I mispoke on the rotors. Here's what my tech said about them -

"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."

To all who said get an independent PPI. I know! I broke my own rule here b/c they are a dealer . . .

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)

Last edited by Aedo; 12-18-2014 at 04:53 AM. Reason: fixed quote tags
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."
So the rotors are too close to be turned but still nearly 50% of their life? Are they warped? If so, did you not notice this on a test drive? I honestly don't see the complaint on the brakes.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this car?

Last edited by Aedo; 12-18-2014 at 04:53 AM. Reason: fixed quote tag
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
So gaps between the bushing and the control are OK? What would you consider unacceptable migration, and what is your assessment based on?
They look just like the ones on my Westfield after many years of hard use... if you're worried I'd get a knowledgeable Lotus race tech to look at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
I mispoke on the rotors. Here's what my tech said about them -

"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."
...
Given that those rotors have ~50% life left in them I have to wonder why the tech suggested replacing them. Which also has me questioning his opinion on the bushes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DealsGapCobra View Post
So the rotors are too close to be turned but still nearly 50% of their life? Are they warped? If so, did you not notice this on a test drive? I honestly don't see the complaint on the brakes.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this car?
Exactly.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 07:54 PM
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Craig, call me tomorrow if you still have my phone number. I am a dealer and I can tell you exactly what they are responsible for.

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, Todd. Will call you tomorrow. Will PM if I can't find your number.

Re the brakes - the tech is claiming they are grooved and so can't be turned b/c would then be below 24mm. Plus he said turning not recommended for track use. If he's right my complaint is about the surface of the rotor not the thickness.

As for the bushings no one seems to know what's acceptable migration (if any) short of the control arm hitting the chassis.

FWIW, my tech used to wrench on an Exige in Pirelli World Challenge so I assume he knows what he's talking about.

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)
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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 06:53 AM
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drilled rotors are going to groove over time, I'm not sure if its all the time but I know I've seen it before. There's a post in the Evora forum with someone asking about if its normal.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Will take a look at it.

Do slotted rotors have less of these kinds of problems - grooving and cracking and dishing?

05 Elise, ST, sports, touring, hardtop, DBA 4000 slotted discs, Ferodo DS2500 pads, Sector 111 gpan3, EP Tuning Quickrack, Pro Alloy rad, DS brace, HnT pad, front and rear tow hooks, CG lock, ORE double cup holder (caffeine for track); '86 911 Targa (sold); '68 MGB (being restored)
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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 12:48 PM
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not 100% for sure, but I don't believe you'll encounter either of those problems in slotted rotors

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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