Best Hand Placement - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by catapult View Post
+1 - I took a Jim Russell performance driving course last year and was told that the "latest" recommended technique is to pull down as it requires a lot less effort and therefore reduces fatigue over time. One also maintains greater control using this method because yor upper arm has less strength when extended at the top of the wheel especially in a sharp corner where the upper arm could be at top centre or past it. Try this little experiment - your hands at 9 and 3 and then pretend to turn the wheel to the right with your left hand at ending up at top centre (try to simulate the force required to turn) and then hold for 30 seconds. Now do the same thing but use your right arm to turn right by pulling down. You should notice that your left tricep and shoulders are much less stressed and the stress on the right arm is not great.

Also havng your right hand in your lap provides some additonal support.
That is how I see it being taught by racers and teach that method myself. It comes from the world of race karts.

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:59 AM
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Lotus has thoughtfully provided you with thumb indentations at the 9 and three position of the wheel. For a purpose.
Unfortunately, they also put the horn exactly where the fat part of the thumb/palm is, so you end up hitting the horn whenver your thumb is positioned in the indentation and you do the 'push' that Matt was talking about. I was at LOG 27 and thought it was strange why everyone's honking on the track. I found out when it was my turn, and ended up doing the same thing.

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:03 PM
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Unfortunately, they also put the horn exactly where the fat part of the thumb/palm is, so you end up hitting the horn whenver your thumb is positioned in the indentation and you do the 'push' that Matt was talking about. I was at LOG 27 and thought it was strange why everyone's honking on the track. I found out when it was my turn, and ended up doing the same thing.
All of the above

...good hand-position; bad spot for horn buttons

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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, they also put the horn exactly where the fat part of the thumb/palm is, so you end up hitting the horn whenver your thumb is positioned in the indentation and you do the 'push' that Matt was talking about. I was at LOG 27 and thought it was strange why everyone's honking on the track. I found out when it was my turn, and ended up doing the same thing.
Horn honking is so embarrassing BUT, less embarrassing than turning the windshield wipers on

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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:13 PM
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How about the 6:00 position... in another time zone...
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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How about the 6:00 position... in another time zone...
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:54 PM
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Horn honking is so embarrassing BUT, less embarrassing than turning the windshield wipers on
I've done that too! But that was in Autocross.

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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 09:02 AM
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Honking means you're Fast!!
Also, as long as the horn is aimed backwards, it decreases you lap times by 0.0001

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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 10:01 AM
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One hand on 12 the other on her thigh. or 3 and 9 like the 20 other posts say..
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 10:44 AM
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Hmmm, my hands are at 10 and 2 and before a sharp turn, I drop my outside hand towards the bottom to push the steering wheel up. The other hand does not move from it's original position. I never really paid attention but after reading this thread, I did to see what I do. Now I'll have to try the pull down method. I bet it's gonna be hard to retrain the brain!

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post #31 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-22-2009, 11:37 AM
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post #32 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 08:43 PM
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One hand on the wheel with my fancy 8-ball steering wheel knob, the other holding the cell phone to my head...

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post #33 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 10:35 PM
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3 and 9 should be a habit that's shared both on and off track.

I do 100 miles a day commute in the city on freeways. Everytime someone roams around their lane, 'digitally' steers through corners/bends or generally just doesn't drive smooth, I know they're a 'one hand at 12' type. Often they're just using a wrist or have a death grip with a stiff arm. Everytime I pick it based on their driving, I'm right. I have no idea why people do it. I guess it's something I need explained to me. It looks stupid, is bad posture, doesn't impress anyone (but themselves) and clearly results in poor driving. But it sure is popular.....

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post #34 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-24-2009, 10:53 PM
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My preferred method is the 9-3 position and to keep the hands there.

However if you need to rotate the wheel past a quarter turn then you should remove the lower hand that is at 6oclock and place it at the top.
The other hand comes of and is ready to either replace the position of the other hand (if you need more lock) or go back to where it started.
This gives you considerably more control of the wheel without shuffling as such and you do not lose the center position.

The best way I think of it is to imagine that you had the steering wheel from KITT in knight rider - it only had a place to grip at 9-3.

The worst thing it to over-extend the arms without removing them as you can easily run out of available lock when you need it. Sure you can then reposition your hands but it's a bit trickier to keep the center position. You are also reacting to a need for more lock by respositioning - if you move the hands first you already have more lock available and so can dial the appropriate amount of lock in faster and smoother.

But as with most things it's all a compromise - you have to decide based on the specific circumstances as one method won't be the best in all scenarios. There will be some instances where going a fraction past a quarter turn without relocating hands is best - A chicane is a good example where you are expecting to turn the wheel quickly in the other direction (see short video link below).

If you want to learn some excellent techniques then I can not reccomend enough the dvd "bending the rules" by Andy Walsh. Lots of spot on stuff in there for all standard of drivers.
Driver Training DVD 'Bending The Rules' with Andrew Walsh: Amazon.co.uk: DVD

Short clip of a niiice drift in an elise:
http://www.carlimits.com/static/files/carlimits.wmv

Longer (3.6mb) trailer of the whole DVD (including some excellent footage of "Heel n Toe combined with left foot braking"
http://www.carlimits.com/static/file...therules01.wmv
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post #35 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 05:12 AM
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9 and 3, no shuffle. Never, ever move your left hand if for some reason you have to shuffle. When I get students who move their left hand I tell them if they do it again, I'll tape their left hand to the wheel (of course I would never do it, but they get the idea). Since your left hand never moves, you will always know the position of your wheel.

Don't wrap your thumbs around the wheel (helps prevent thumbs from breaking when you hit the wall, and, much more importantly, it also helps prevent you from death gripping the wheel while driving). Also do this when driving on the street.

Finally when you reach the pinnacle of racing, your hands will be at 9 and 3 and you won't be shuffle steering.

See picture.

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Last edited by RichS; 08-25-2009 at 06:27 AM. Reason: Smiley added for the folks who don't get the humor in the 'when you get to F1' comment.
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post #36 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 06:20 AM
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You can't compare a formula car to a street car.
The steering wheel rotation from lock to lock isn't even one turn so it makes absolute sense to keep the hands planted in the 9-3 position at all times.
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post #37 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 06:26 AM
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Ughh... I guess I should have added a smiley to the end of that sentence. I really don't think that anyone reading this thread is ever going to end up in F1.

(Also you missed the chance to chastise Salty Dog about putting an 8 ball on his steering wheel...)

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post #38 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ads_green View Post
My preferred method is the 9-3 position and to keep the hands there.

However if you need to rotate the wheel past a quarter turn then you should remove the lower hand that is at 6oclock and place it at the top.
The other hand comes of and is ready to either replace the position of the other hand (if you need more lock) or go back to where it started.
This gives you considerably more control of the wheel without shuffling as such and you do not lose the center position.

The best way I think of it is to imagine that you had the steering wheel from KITT in knight rider - it only had a place to grip at 9-3.

The worst thing it to over-extend the arms without removing them as you can easily run out of available lock when you need it. Sure you can then reposition your hands but it's a bit trickier to keep the center position. You are also reacting to a need for more lock by respositioning - if you move the hands first you already have more lock available and so can dial the appropriate amount of lock in faster and smoother.

But as with most things it's all a compromise - you have to decide based on the specific circumstances as one method won't be the best in all scenarios. There will be some instances where going a fraction past a quarter turn without relocating hands is best - A chicane is a good example where you are expecting to turn the wheel quickly in the other direction (see short video link below).

If you want to learn some excellent techniques then I can not reccomend enough the dvd "bending the rules" by Andy Walsh. Lots of spot on stuff in there for all standard of drivers.
Driver Training DVD 'Bending The Rules' with Andrew Walsh: Amazon.co.uk: DVD

Short clip of a niiice drift in an elise:
http://www.carlimits.com/static/files/carlimits.wmv

Longer (3.6mb) trailer of the whole DVD (including some excellent footage of "Heel n Toe combined with left foot braking"
http://www.carlimits.com/static/file...therules01.wmv
Cool. Thanks for the info! I am def. going to check them out...

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post #39 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Ughh... I guess I should have added a smiley to the end of that sentence. I really don't think that anyone reading this thread is ever going to end up in F1.

(Also you missed the chance to chastise Salty Dog about putting an 8 ball on his steering wheel...)
Well...we can all DREAM about being a F1 driver nothin' wrong with that...

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post #40 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-25-2009, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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I went AutoX'n this weekend and I am having a really hard time with my hand placement starting at 9 and 3 and then ending up at high noon! In addition, I am ending up with yucky blisters on my hands...

Any suggestions on practicing keeping my hand placement during a race? I thought tape, but decided that may not be too safe

Also, what is everyone's thoughts on gloves? Cool or Dorky?

"Follow your bliss and the universe will open doors where there were only walls." ~Joseph Campbell
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