New SEB rules/regs-how do they affect Elise drivers? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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New SEB rules/regs-how do they affect Elise drivers?

Have you guys read these things? Headed to street tires in 2014 (140TW) and 200TW in 2015 (I'd probably just run Rivals or Star Specs anyway). Corvettes moved to AS except for the latest and fastest, but can they put the power down on street tires? Could the rules lead to a rebirth of the Elise, or have all the competitors dumbed down and put away their cars forever?

2nd question-what's the best Elise to have for street class, year and options?

I'm thinking about jumping back in. Why? My recently acquired Elise has a LSD and a factory trackpack. On street tires, the cost to entry for me are zero except entry fees. No 2nd set of rims, no rain tires, no Hoosiers, no trailering. geez why wouldn't I come back?

Jer
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 04:56 AM
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Nobody knows the answers to your questions mainly because nobody has explored them in detail... up to this point.

I've spent time on Star Specs and I was not impressed. I think with the Elise being as light as it is, the popular tire might not be the ticket. I'm betting the R1R is still going to be the tire for this car... especially on the surface of lincoln. Lincoln loves the Toyos.

That's all I have.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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I've never tried the R1Rs...might be a candidate when i need new shoes. I like the specs on the street but never autocrossed them. The Rovals might still be the ticket too...thanks for your input.

Jer
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 10:03 AM
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I've just equipped my 2005 with the big bar, and R1R's. I will let you know how it stands up after the Match Tour in Milwaukee. I am hoping the Elise is one of the cars to have in RTR.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 10:32 AM
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I'll also vote for the R1R but it might depend on the size- the Magic Pixie Dust size is 195/50r15, can you make 15x7.5's work on that car? We found that we really liked the Rivals but they don't do cooler weather like the Toyo's. And keep in the mind the proposal would be to go to 200 treadwear in 2015, the Toyos are 140. Unless they just restamp them....

mike snyder. serious autocrosser, Lotus noob.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Mike, the wheels are 16s front, 17s rear.

Patrick-please do let us know! I'm just messing around this year, maybe get into it big next year, so I'll drive on my worn out AD08s for now.

Jer
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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I understand that Lugod has found that the 235/45-17 R1R is the same construction as the magical 195... (there is one compound throughout the entire tire). This is the attribute that makes the 195 so potent. FYI
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 01:32 PM
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With the new proposal there has been talk that the Elise would be the car to be should it go into street tire class. Even better yet the C5 & C6 Corvettes have been moved to AS, which makes perfect sense--at least in the SoCal region where the courses have looooooooooooooooong straigthaways advantageous for the Corvettes (easily 3 to 4+ seconds per run over the Elise ) regardless of where we run (Autoclub speedway, or the former El Toro Marine Air Station runways). The S2000 CR which has been added to SS would be a worthy opponent. The Elise has always been competitive on "regular" designed layouts--the way Jon Lugod does them (the very few times he can). Street tires will work using the proper setup.

'05 ELISE Storm Titanium LSS/TP/HT/Dual Oil Coolers/Starshield/Raptor Racing exhaust XP111 (LBH)/BWR 7/8" Anti Roll Bar
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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 05:32 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds good, R1Rs for 2014 then and we'll see about 2015. I hope my current tires can get me to next spring lol.

I keep discovering nice little things and not so little things about the car I bought. I have 1 full degree of negative camber up (each side) front after pulling all but the ABS shims. That's about the most I've ever seen or heard of, stock. The car just keeps making me to a happy dance.

Jer
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 06:22 AM
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I hope you didn't pull the ABS shim. Only the actual camber shims would be allowable to pull.

Also, the 235/40-17 is the R1R that's good all the way through. I don't know about the 235/45-17. It might be.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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I know all about the ABS shim. I was going to be the test guinea pig at Peru in 2006 to test its legality. It's still on the car on all four corners.

Jer
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
I hope you didn't pull the ABS shim. Only the actual camber shims would be allowable to pull.

Also, the 235/40-17 is the R1R that's good all the way through. I don't know about the 235/45-17. It might be.
That's good because we KNOW that will fit with no problems. 245-40-17 Hoosiers rubbed, their diameter is 24.5 but are 9.3 inches wide. The 235-40-17 R1R measurements are 24.4 but only 8.8 wide. These should fit great.

Jer
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Surferjer View Post
That's good because we KNOW that will fit with no problems. 245-40-17 Hoosiers rubbed, their diameter is 24.5 but are 9.3 inches wide. The 235-40-17 R1R measurements are 24.4 but only 8.8 wide. These should fit great.
Hmmmm....I went with the 245-40-17's. Your saying the 235's are magic sauce tires....dunno. The 195-15's were produced for a Japan-only spec race series. Bringing the size over the states meant just punting and using those. Cut one apart once....I have. I don't know that the 235 would be constructed the same. Same compound all the way through? (I want proof before giving up my 245's.) Maybe....but not "constructed" the same.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Washburn View Post
Hmmmm....I went with the 245-40-17's. Your saying the 235's are magic sauce tires....dunno. The 195-15's were produced for a Japan-only spec race series. Bringing the size over the states meant just punting and using those. Cut one apart once....I have. I don't know that the 235 would be constructed the same. Same compound all the way through? (I want proof before giving up my 245's.) Maybe....but not "constructed" the same.
I'm not saying anything about the rubber, those other guys are. Since i don't need to buy tires until the Fall at the earliest, I plan to wait and see. I have LSS rims with 175 55 16 and 225 55 17 right now (inhereted). They look so small!

Jer
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 11:14 AM
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Alrighty, so it looks like 2014 is going to be a good year for the Elise in SS.

Here's what I would do: get 15x6.5" rims for the front and run the magical Toyo R1R in the 195-50-15 size and use the stock wheels in the rear with the R1R in the also magical 235-40-17 size.... and enjoy beating other elise drivers because that's all who is going to run SS. The vette drivers will run SSR.

2015 will be a completely different picture.

Regarding the 235 and it's compounding: I'm not sure. I was told that Lugod found them to be the good stuff all the way through. Contact him and find out.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
Alrighty, so it looks like 2014 is going to be a good year for the Elise in SS.

Here's what I would do: get 15x6.5" rims for the front and run the magical Toyo R1R in the 195-50-15 size and use the stock wheels in the rear with the R1R in the also magical 235-40-17 size.... and enjoy beating other elise drivers because that's all who is going to run SS. The vette drivers will run SSR.
+1

I am going down to a 15x6.5 wheel in the front next year. I believe the 195/235 set up will be a very good set up for the Toyo's. For 2015 I'm going to try a 205-50-15 or even try to stuff a 225-45-15 so I can have my choice of Rivals, RS3s or ZIIs
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 03:37 PM
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FWIW, I went with 205/45-16 and235/40-17 R1Rs for this year. I've still not figured out the magic handshake for this car, only been to one event this year, went sloooowwww.

Just got my Ohlins back on, now with legal perches (yay!), put caster in the car, finally. My car had all the shims on the backside of the control arm, moved them to the front. Last event I ran the car at, it had good steady state behavior (smaller BWR bar on full stiff), but HORRENDOUS turn-in - I had to slow wwaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy down to get the front to bite. LSS shocks.

Kinda felt like too much bar, but I found a midcorner picture that suggests it does not have too much _roll_ stiffness, just zero bite at turn in. Rear toe is ~1/8" out.

Match Tour this weekend. We Shall See. Ohlins, left the bar full stiff, grippier site, I _hope_ the car turns in. It should.

I also have to get used to downshifting to 1st for slow stuff. Hrmph. Should be less of an issue at this weekend's site - much, much larger, but the car is so dramatically faster "on the cam" than off, 1st gear/keeping it above 6200 is important.

Should be fun. From what I've read/people I've talked to (pretty good sources...), the "magic" tire is simply good rubber down to the cord - nothing different about the _tire_, just the compound. The 195/50-15 and 235/40-17 are two of the "magic" sizes; there is a third, but I don't know which.

Way I figure, the rears should last for two sets of fronts. I hope. This weekend's site will be a good test - it is harder on tires than the other event I've run them on.

Once I got the car turning, though, lateral grip _felt_ great. No data to back it up, but lateral did not feel substandard - just no initial bite. I'm HOPING the caster fixes that.



Iain
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 04:38 PM
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So 2014 rules allow me to go to a 15" diameter wheel in the front?


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[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="2"]2005 Elise Ardent Red / Biscuit Leather / Touring / Hard Top / Converted to LSS / Larini "Sports" Exhaust System. No Star Shield
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 05:55 PM
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Disregard. I see it in the June fastrack. When we the 2014 rules be confirmed as official?


Quote:
Originally Posted by naloise View Post
So 2014 rules allow me to go to a 15" diameter wheel in the front?


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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-18-2013, 06:16 PM
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naloise,
can you quote the proposed rule that will allow us to use different size wheels, please.

Howard
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