Retrofitting Traction Control and LSD - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 06:04 PM
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I understand that you can cause the 06 and up ECU to reset by pulling the battery cable before the relay clicks (I have the procedure somewhere). I plan to do this when I get around to installing my traction control switch.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 01-11-2013, 04:59 PM
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Traction control can be added with a BOE/Kold Fire tune an traction control button. You will need that with the factory LSD to stay in stock class.

You definitely want the LSD for auto-x but you could still have fun without it. You just will not be as fast and will have to deal with wheel spin accelerating out of the tight corners.
It's my guess that the lsd is worth somewhere around .3 to .7 seconds on an elise with a stock power output (for a course that SS class would run at about 50 seconds). Depends on the course and the driving style. Enough to matter quite a lot for championships, but not so much that you MUST do it right away if you are just running for fun locally. There will be an occasional course where you really wish you had it and it may cost you a second or more, but slaloms and transitional stuff won't care too much as long as you have the stiff front bar.

The elise is regularly in the SS trophies for nats

Now if one bumps up to SSP (formerly ASP) one generally does an Option conversion (including super charger) to become an Exige. Really better to just start with an exige here.

or for SSM Weight becomes an issue. The car is too light by rule with boost so one either Adds Huge boost and 150lbs of lead up to 2120lbs or replaces pistons/valves/crank/oil system/etc etc etc $$$ etc etc and oh yeah more $$$, stroke and revs it over 9k and shaves weight down to 1805lbs. Most competitive street modified engines are ticking time bombs. I know one national competitor that has had 3 engines in the last 3 years.

And then there's XP where the franken lotus that was an elise has won 4 of the last 5 years. XP is probably more $$ still, but less headache with rules.

SS and XP are arguably the sweet spots. Stay stock unless you have another $15k-$30k to pour into the car, or you don't really care much about winning. (Do as I say not as I do )

As the power goes up the LSD will matter more. But for stock cars it can wait until you are within 1-2 seconds of someone who is nationally competitive.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 08:39 AM
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In the interests of full disclosure, the TC conversion is MUCH easier for 06 (I think, maybe 07) and newer cars because the TC harness is already there running up to just behind the shifter, needing only the button and short cable to install, then the reflash mentioned above.

For 05 and (maybe??) 06, you need the harness from the ECU to the shifter as well, which is MUCH more expensive and very difficult to find.

This was another factor for my not doing the conversion and staying in SS.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 02:06 PM
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Is the Bosche traction control from the Exige V6 fittable to an 05 Elise (no LSD) ? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.) If not what factory solution(s) is/are available for Elise? Asking to improve safety on road and occasional amateur track days.

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 08:40 AM
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i think tightening the nut behind the wheel is going to be a lot cheaper, and is transferable from car to car.

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Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
Is the Bosche traction control from the Exige V6 fittable to an 05 Elise (no LSD) ? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.) If not what factory solution(s) is/are available for Elise? Asking to improve safety on road and occasional amateur track days.

"Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Rainier View Post
Is the Bosche traction control from the Exige V6 fittable to an 05 Elise (no LSD) ? (Sorry if this is a dumb question.) If not what factory solution(s) is/are available for Elise? Asking to improve safety on road and occasional amateur track days.
Sure it will fit/work perfect; after all same engine, same ECU, same weight and traction distribution. What, that is like asking if a system from a Buick LeSabre can be used on a Chrysler 300. Yeah, they both have 4 wheels.

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 03:46 AM
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So I took my car to the dealer to have this done. They installed the LSD and the Traction Control Switch.

Technically, my ECU did not recognize the switch since it has already decided it lives in a car that does not have TC. When asked if there was a reflash procedure that could be performed to enable TC, the answer was "nope." I'm not sure I believe that, but the dealer wouldn't or couldn't do it for me.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 04:42 AM
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i think tightening the nut behind the wheel is going to be a lot cheaper, and is transferable from car to car.
But you have to take the horn button out at least. Removing the steering wheel helps...
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 05:49 AM
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Would anyone have a part number for the Toyota LSD? I am guessing it is a part that can be ordered at any Toyota dealer. Thanks.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
i think tightening the nut behind the wheel is going to be a lot cheaper, and is transferable from car to car.
I tried tightening the nut but it keeps coming loose

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-06-2013, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Subparpunk03 View Post
So I took my car to the dealer to have this done. They installed the LSD and the Traction Control Switch.

Technically, my ECU did not recognize the switch since it has already decided it lives in a car that does not have TC. When asked if there was a reflash procedure that could be performed to enable TC, the answer was "nope." I'm not sure I believe that, but the dealer wouldn't or couldn't do it for me.
The Atlanta dealership service guy said it wasn't something they would do either. (as of about 3 weeks ago, when I was in there)
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 02:15 PM
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http://gglotus.org/ggrace/engineering/le-issue23.pdf

"In most road cars, the traction control uses two main methods of intervention: brake application and throttle reduction.
...
The Lotus system ingeniously intervenes by reducing engine torque output, but by cutting combustion events. A carefully designed algorithm selectively misses fuel injection events relative to the level of wheelspin, as well as the engine operating
parameters. With injection events that can occur once every two-thousandths of a second, the effective intervention time is imperceptible to the driver. The driver’s awareness of the LTC functioning is mainly audible (the audible effect to the driver is similar to that of a rev limiter)
...
An extension of the LTC system is the ability for the driver to vary the wheelspin threshold, now dubbed Lotus Variable Traction Control (LVTC). This gives the driver the ability to fine-tune the slip threshold to suit driving style and conditions. LVTC received the severest of validation programmes during a season in the British GT Championship. The three Lotus Sport Cadena Exige GT3 cars that won the 2006 Championship were equipped with the same system that is now available as an option on Exige S and first seen in production on the 2-Eleven Launch Edition."

I think that the standard answer of always turning off the traction control no longer would apply in this type of system. This seems to be similar to the recent Porsche tunable traction control systems, though I don't know how Porsche implements their system. For a track event this type of system would be pretty desirable for a track day where the cost of a mistake can be painful and expensive.
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2018, 04:14 PM
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For auto crossing how bad is the lack of LSD? The guys here have really small tight courses and I'm thinking I will have a ton of spinning. I just got an Elise as well and I'm having the same concerns. The back end seems to spin real easy from the little driving I've done so far.
You need more front sway bar.

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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RoHo View Post
I think that the standard answer of always turning off the traction control no longer would apply in this type of system. This seems to be similar to the recent Porsche tunable traction control systems, though I don't know how Porsche implements their system. For a track event this type of system would be pretty desirable for a track day where the cost of a mistake can be painful and expensive.
It really depends on power levels and grip levels... and like the thing says, TC only affects power output. It doesn't use the brakes like more sophisticated systems. My car makes 400ft/lbs at 5500 rpm. I'm running 275 hoosiers and I'm on the fence about TC. It's nice sometimes but it's still a little intrusive on the slow corners. I'm still working on how much slip to allow at low wheel speeds (I'm tuning the slip tables).

Oh, here's another thing, if your car is turboed, the TC occuring in slow corners will also slow down the spool which messes up the timing of boost onset and corner exit.
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 09-08-2018, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoHo View Post
http://gglotus.org/ggrace/engineering/le-issue23.pdf
"An extension of the LTC system is the ability for the driver to vary the wheelspin threshold, now dubbed Lotus Variable Traction Control (LVTC). This gives the driver the ability to fine-tune the slip threshold to suit driving style and conditions. LVTC received the severest of validation programmes during a season in the British GT Championship. The three Lotus Sport Cadena Exige GT3 cars that won the 2006 Championship were equipped with the same system that is now available as an option on Exige S and first seen in production on the 2-Eleven Launch Edition."

I think that the standard answer of always turning off the traction control no longer would apply in this type of system. This seems to be similar to the recent Porsche tunable traction control systems, though I don't know how Porsche implements their system. For a track event this type of system would be pretty desirable for a track day where the cost of a mistake can be painful and expensive.
I have been autocrossing a stock 2008 Exige S240 with LVTC this summer (10 events), after playing with it a lot I find about 4% slip works best (I'm on Toyo R888Rs). At 8% the back end feels very greasy, and at 0% the car never over steers in the least.

The computer modulated slip is really cool on long sweeping turns where it feels like the back end is about to break loose, but you just keep your foot in it and it always goes exactly where you point the front wheels.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-25-2019, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Toys View Post
Traction control can be added with a BOE/Kold Fire tune an traction control button. You will need that with the factory LSD to stay in stock class.

You definitely want the LSD for auto-x but you could still have fun without it. You just will not be as fast and will have to deal with wheel spin accelerating out of the tight corners.
You need more front sway bar.

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