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post #61 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:52 AM Thread Starter
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Good luck. Limited testing showed my Shaved 195/235 r1r set up to be quite a bit slower than my bfg rival set up. This is on a sealed asphalt lot. I need to spend more time with pressures and shock settings to dial the r1rs in. And of course concrete will change everything.
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post #62 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 09:23 AM
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Iain,

If you need to offload a couple 15's, I would be interested. I just haven't really looked around yet. I am interested in what you say about them. I do still want to try the 225 RS3 setup on the front. I heard a rumor about a 205-15 RS3 though....do you know anything about that?
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post #63 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 01:21 PM
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Hmmm...maybe don't need the 15's for the RS3's. I spoke with TR and they say the 205-45-16 will be in May 12th. Yes...I would like to try pixie dust R1R's on the front just to see, but I still feel 225 Kook's would be a better choice....even in Lincoln. (I placed 3rd on a set of 225 Kook's that had 240 runs on them...I like them!) We will see if they actually make it here in this size.....
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post #64 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 04:26 PM
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Yeah, I read about a 195/50-15 RS3 today, too.

I'll have the wheels around if you want to try them. I don't think I'll need 4 15" wheels before Milwaukee, can maybe ship you up a pair?

If the 195/50-15 RS3 really does exist (or a 205/45-16), I might try them just on the front to see what happens.

Lemmeknow if you want to borrow the other pair of 15s, assuming they fit and don't suck.


Iain
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post #65 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 04:36 PM
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Good luck. Limited testing showed my Shaved 195/235 r1r set up to be quite a bit slower than my bfg rival set up. This is on a sealed asphalt lot. I need to spend more time with pressures and shock settings to dial the r1rs in. And of course concrete will change everything.
Y'know, I've found the same thing - I don't know why I keep trying to make the R1Rs work; I like their FEEL much better, but my ZIIs seem faster.

But maybe shaved & 15" front? Dunno.

It _seems_ to me that Rivals are better on everything but grippy concrete - Lincoln - anecdotal and NOT scientific, but seems like Rivals kinda sucked in Lincoln.

Pat's 3rd in RTR last year really got my attention, though. Pat is not a hack (dammit, I so want to abuse Mr.W right now, but can't....), the car is...good, but certainly not optimized, and 3rd?

OK. THAT'S why I'm chasing the R1R.

That, and last season, comedy of errors, at one point, I had my spring preload WAY too high. Stupid high. Mis-measured a couple of things, put a metric feces-ton of preload on the springs.

Car was loose, but OK on a grippy, coarse lot (asphalt, but fairly Lincoln-like). Not fast, but balance was in the "not awful" ballpark.

Next weekend, I threw ZIIs on it and brought it to a sealed asphalt lot.

UNDRIVABLE. Absolutely absurdly loose. No other changes.

Two things come to mind:

1. R1Rs are soft, and the tires were full tread, fairly new. Compliance in the tire let it hang on just-enough to not spin EVERYWHERE?

2. The R1R has more grip than ZII.

I don't know. Combination of the two, I suspect - the R1R has fairly deep, squishy tread, but the difference was _astounding_. ZERO rear grip. None. Not a smidge. As SOON as the car started to load, it went sideways. Broken-loose - not "maybe less rear shock" but "maybe a tie rod end is broken."

So....yeah.

I put a fair bit of odd wear in the R1Rs with the preload high, too - it was doing some funky stuff. I don't think I've driven the R1Rs on the car since I sorted out the spring preload.

Dunno. My favorite, so far, are the ZIIs, but I do think the R1R is worth figuring out.


Iain
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post #66 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 04:42 PM
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awww dammit 225/45-15 has merit dammit dammit dammit more options.

I don't like paying for Hoosiers, but by the time I buy all the damned street tires.....
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post #67 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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I'm having the exact opposite experience going from bfgs feeling pretty darn good to the r1rs being almost undrivable and stupid loose.

Tire testing is expensive but I think if you optimize your car for xxx brand of tires on xxx surface your going to be hard to beat. Read about the characteristics of each tire and pick one that suits your style.
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post #68 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 06:46 PM
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I'm having the exact opposite experience going from bfgs feeling pretty darn good to the r1rs being almost undrivable and stupid loose.

Tire testing is expensive but I think if you optimize your car for xxx brand of tires on xxx surface your going to be hard to beat. Read about the characteristics of each tire and pick one that suits your style.
Yeah, I'm coming to the realization that they're all _pretty_ close, I need to pick one, make the car as fast as I can on _it_, and drive.

I think it'll be R1Rs to start. I'm going to try the Rival, too - now that we can use 15s, Rivals get a lot more interesting (I decided I did not want to deal with them on 16s...or maybe that was not possible...not sure). With 15s, though, they're fair game.

I at least have to give them a shot. Might just try two fronts and see what happens, for a test.

I'll try to keep some good data.


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post #69 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 09:44 AM
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Yeah, I read about a 195/50-15 RS3 today, too.

I'll have the wheels around if you want to try them. I don't think I'll need 4 15" wheels before Milwaukee, can maybe ship you up a pair?

If the 195/50-15 RS3 really does exist (or a 205/45-16), I might try them just on the front to see what happens.

Lemmeknow if you want to borrow the other pair of 15s, assuming they fit and don't suck.


Iain
Let me know when you get them. I will pay shipping. The idea was to use the 225 RS3's, not the 195's. IF they arrive, I could use the 205-16's and not need another set of wheels...but I like the 225 on the front. That's the plan anyway.

Regarding Lincoln, it's always been a toss up between the Toyo's and the Kook's on our Civic. Contingency usually played a part in the decision. Toyo's like Lincoln...but so do the Kooks.
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post #70 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:01 PM
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I'm having the exact opposite experience going from bfgs feeling pretty darn good to the r1rs being almost undrivable and stupid loose.

Tire testing is expensive but I think if you optimize your car for xxx brand of tires on xxx surface your going to be hard to beat. Read about the characteristics of each tire and pick one that suits your style.
Yeah but haven't you only done one TNT and two events on those tires and only at one weird ass lot? I've never driven on a lot as sealed and bizarre as Manheim. Dixie was SOOOOO much more grippy and I don't consider Dixie to be high grip.
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post #71 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 12:47 PM
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That's why I am glad that I test in Milwaukee. Very "Lincoln Like", even though it's paved. Gary speaks the truth...test on one lot at your own risk.
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post #72 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 04:35 PM
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Willdo. Got the shipping notification today, I'll pm you for address, Pat. Agreed - 225x15 front, that's very interesting. I think I'll just focus on making the car work on R1Rs for the time being, see what that gets me, keep an eye on what you're doing.


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post #73 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah but haven't you only done one TNT and two events on those tires and only at one weird ass lot? I've never driven on a lot as sealed and bizarre as Manheim. Dixie was SOOOOO much more grippy and I don't consider Dixie to be high grip.
I've done 2 TNTs at mahiem with toyo vs bfgs. I've never run the toyos for points because they are so much slower. Everytime I go to a new lot I'm bringing both sets and testing. I'm not basing all of my data from manhiem. Not only is it a weird sealed surface but it has so much elevation change that makes stuff off camber or just plain bumpy.
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post #74 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 07:50 AM
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I've done 2 TNTs at mahiem with toyo vs bfgs. I've never run the toyos for points because they are so much slower. Everytime I go to a new lot I'm bringing both sets and testing. I'm not basing all of my data from manhiem. Not only is it a weird sealed surface but it has so much elevation change that makes stuff off camber or just plain bumpy.
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post #75 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 08:09 AM
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I've done 2 TNTs at mahiem with toyo vs bfgs. I've never run the toyos for points because they are so much slower. Everytime I go to a new lot I'm bringing both sets and testing. I'm not basing all of my data from manhiem. Not only is it a weird sealed surface but it has so much elevation change that makes stuff off camber or just plain bumpy.
Please quantify "so much slower"
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post #76 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-21-2014, 09:10 AM Thread Starter
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.8 to 1.2 seconds slower on a 38 second course. But like glagola said that is a weird surface, don't base too much on that.
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post #77 of 154 (permalink) Old 03-25-2014, 07:24 PM
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SSR knockoff wheels showed up today. No pics, no real numbers, but:

1. Seem reasonably light. I'm guessing 13#. Not LIGHT, but for $360/4 wheels, I'll take it.
2. Construction/finish is acceptable. My real SSRs are certainly nicer, but again, $360....
3. They need a spacer. 10mm gives adequate clearance. Centerbore is smaller than the SSR centerbore. Have not measured. 8mm probably works.

I'll get more concrete info here soon, but for now, for those wondering, they seem to be OK - and they'll certainly work.


Iain
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post #78 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 06:51 PM
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OK, so I have tires mounted on the not-SSRs.

- HUGE spacer needed. 13mm. Maybe something less would work, but not a whole lot less. 13mm spacer + 38mm offset = more spacer is not legal.

- They're very, very round. Spun one on a balancer, huh! No hops at ALL - was expecting to see a cheap, crappy wheel, but...dead round, no vertical runout, no lateral. I've seen worse stock wheels.

- Still not weighed one, but they're not superlight. My 16" SSRs with 205/50-16 Dunlop Star Specs are notably lighter. 1-2#, I'd guess.

- Put a 205/50-15 Rival on it for now. 225s were backordered, so I went with 205. Glad I did, actually - the 205 Rival is a big 205. Notably wider than my 205 Dunlops. Looks good on the wheel, square, not pinched. A 225 may well be faster - don't know - but the 205 does not LOOK small (like a 195/50-15 R1R).

More as I know it. I should drive the car tomorrow or Saturday. Things would have to flex a LOT to eat up the distance between spoke and caliper - I'm not anticipating any issues, but it is closer than I'd like.



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post #79 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-03-2014, 11:44 PM
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Yeah but haven't you only done one TNT and two events on those tires and only at one weird ass lot? I've never driven on a lot as sealed and bizarre as Manheim. Dixie was SOOOOO much more grippy and I don't consider Dixie to be high grip.
We did one of those last year with Romesh. First time I heard A6's talk!

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post #80 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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- Put a 205/50-15 Rival on it for now. 225s were backordered, so I went with 205.
I had the opposite happen to me the 205s weren't available so I was forced into the 225s. They are pinched a bit, but the 245s on the 7.5 rears look just as bad if not worse. I plan on testing a 205 vs a 225, Hollis would say a 205 is big for a 6.5 wheel, he runs the 225 kooks on a 9" wheel and the 195 toyos on a 7.5".
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