The Solo Setup Thread for the Elise in SCCA - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
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post #21 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 08:05 AM Thread Starter
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It does not matter if it says for track use only. THe SCCA stock rules do not get into DOT legality of the stuff you bolt on (other than tires).

If Lotus delivered a car from the factory with the Stage 2, then it would be legal. If modifying the diffuser was documented in the repair manual or in a Technical Service Bulletin, then it could be legal also.

I would never expect SCCA to be flexible because if they were, there would be people "trimming" their cars and cutting off 20 pounds of metal, because SCCA said they could. It is a slippery slope.

The other thing we have to be concerned about, is if Lotus is too fliexible. SCCA worries about the Lotus I think. One reason is because Lotus (or any small manufacturer) can make up the rules as they go along. Like you say...deliver one car with Stage 2 installed for example. That alone may not seem like a lot, but then they could also deliver cars with a special camber kit, make LSD an option, make a special lightweght package, and more.

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post #22 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient Wedgie
Were Lotus to produce one car with Stage 2 pre-installed, wouldn't that change the situation?
Maybe. But I've talked to Lotus about this, and they feel it's not worth the extra option on the production line.
Also, Randy and I are still having sound issues, even with the quieter Quicksilver exhasut.
Finally, this sort of thing is exactly why the SCCA is afraid of Lotus cars. They could easily build one Elise with an LSD, the Stage 2 exhaust, the Ohlins 2-way coil-overs, no radio, no a/c, no sound deadening. Maybe even build in the roll bar brace for extra stiffness. We'd have a SuperStock killer.
And the SCCA would boot ALL Elise's straight to A-Street Prepared.

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post #23 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
It does not matter if it says for track use only. THe SCCA stock rules do not get into DOT legality of the stuff you bolt on (other than tires).

...

Like you say...deliver one car with Stage 2 installed for example.
1.) I raised the DOT question because that would prevent Lotus from producing one for importation. So Lotus couldn't help that way even if they wanted to.

2.) However, the other thing you mentioned. "modifying the diffuser was documented in the repair manual or in a Technical Service Bulletin, then it could be legal also."
Why isn't it?
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post #24 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Puertas
We'd have a SuperStock killer.
And the SCCA would boot ALL Elise's straight to A-Street Prepared.
I see the problem to competition this year. But it's also stifling innovation. We surely would have seen production gas-turbine cars long ago had it not been banned from Indy.

There's a certain sadness here that should not be overlooked. Shouldn't a better solution be sought?
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post #25 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Well, this maybe deserves its own thread but....

The role of SCCA's classing structure and rules for STOCK, is not to foster innovation. There are other classes for that. One of the main goals of the stock class rules are cost containment. Every allowance you make, means someone has to try out new things, spend more money, innovate. That is why there are the different class levels. If you want, you can move to ASP, or Prepared. If you want to focus more on driver and not cut up the new car, than stay in Stock.

So to repeat.... there is a place for more innovation, but not in factory stock class rules. If I was king of SCCA, I would make it even more restrictive than they allow now. No allowance for DOT legal tires made from soft compounds. No expensive shocks (yes, I know this kind of thinking raises new problems of implementation)..no swaybar allowances. Get stock.... back to more stock.

If you look at the history, you can see what happens. Cheaper to allow a Midas muffler right? You don't want to force someone to use a factory muffler.. and how would you buy a factory muffler on a car that was built in the 80s? So you have to allow aftermarket mufflers. But wait, what kind of restrictions on those mufflers? Any? So you have thousands of people in SCCA buying brand new cars and immediately ripping out the mufflers... some buying 5 different aftermarket types and testing them all on dynos. The allowance made sense, but the impact is what it is. Same with shocks. Same with tires...

If you want to try out a smaller but wider wheel and very fat tires on the car, if you want to try some camber adjustment and different springs... then you go to Street Prepared.

If you want to try running the Elise with an engine swap and/or forced injection... Street Mod.

Robert and I are discussing the possibility of running the Elise as Stock for one year, then going to ASP or SM2. How fast do you want to go? How much money and time do you have?

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post #26 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 10:40 AM
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I'm glad SS is there. I don't have unlimited funds. Now if what Robert is saying is true, then the new Z06 sohlud be in ASP, right? Except there's that American Vette bias.

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post #27 of 256 (permalink) Old 02-21-2005, 10:51 AM
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Thank you Randy. I think you're right. A special thread to mull the philosophy behind the rules may be illuminating. And I see why Lotus is worried about. There sometimes could be but a thin wall between production and Motor Sports division?
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post #28 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 05:18 AM
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Can you update this thread with different tire makes/dimensions? I'm confused on the Kumhos especially. Are the sizes you guys are trying the only ones that will be offered/fit on the Elise?

I bought the A3S04s, but once they're gone (mid summer?) I would like to go to the Kumhos, but I'm worried about fitting them.

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post #29 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 02:02 PM
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We are currently running the Kumho Ecsta V710 in the folowing sizes:
front - 215/40-16 - 28 psi
rear - 245/45-17 - 28 psi

The fronts are a bear to mount. They need to be very warm to get them to seat.
The rears rub in the fender liners. We want to try spacers in the back to see if that solves the problem. Raising the pressures might also prevent the tires from deforming...

BWR adjustable front bar with adjustable end-link kit, set at full stiff.

Front Alignment: 0 toe, max negative camber = approx -.75 degrees
Rear Alignment: 1/8" toe-in each side, stock negative camber = approx. -1.75 degrees

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post #30 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 04:18 PM
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Thanks Robert.

Jer
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post #31 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Puertas
We are currently running the Kumho Ecsta V710 in the folowing sizes:
front - 215/40-16 - 28 psi
rear - 245/45-17 - 28 psi

The fronts are a bear to mount. They need to be very warm to get them to seat.
The rears rub in the fender liners. We want to try spacers in the back to see if that solves the problem. Raising the pressures might also prevent the tires from deforming...

BWR adjustable front bar with adjustable end-link kit, set at full stiff.

Front Alignment: 0 toe, max negative camber = approx -.75 degrees
Rear Alignment: 1/8" toe-in each side, stock negative camber = approx. -1.75 degrees
Thanks Robert,

Just wondering do you have any update regarding shocks? I might get a car in a month so I am figuring out the stuffs I will be getting.

Also since you set the front sway bar to the stiffest position, do you have any plan to make an even stiffer bar?

Are you running LLS rims or SSR?

Thanks very much for sharing all the info.

Hung-Jen Hung
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post #32 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Puertas
Maybe. But I've talked to Lotus about this, and they feel it's not worth the extra option on the production line.
Also, Randy and I are still having sound issues, even with the quieter Quicksilver exhasut.
Finally, this sort of thing is exactly why the SCCA is afraid of Lotus cars. They could easily build one Elise with an LSD, the Stage 2 exhaust, the Ohlins 2-way coil-overs, no radio, no a/c, no sound deadening. Maybe even build in the roll bar brace for extra stiffness. We'd have a SuperStock killer.
And the SCCA would boot ALL Elise's straight to A-Street Prepared.
I, too, had sound issue at Qualcomm in my RX-7, Tri-Point was suggesting to modify the exhaust tip to make it tip downwards. I ended up didn't do anything since my 7 was not that loud all the time. However maybe this will resolve the sound issue on Elise?
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post #33 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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I looked all over (too late in the week) for a tip that pointed downwards. The problem is trying to not mess up the QS tips which are not easy to mount to. We did come up with a contraption, but it did not work well enough. I do think downward tips would be an answer. I was thinking I could cut off the QS tips back at where they join the exhaust pipe and then have custom tips welded on. Or just come up with a new custom exhaust. Not sure yet.

The bar we are using now is the largest bar we could use and not have to change the bushings. We have yet to see if we will need a stiffer bar.

On this event, we ran on the SSRs.

#somethingwickedthiswaycomes... the new Origin Noble M and the Origin 7

Zenos E10S for Sale! www.zenosforsale.com

There are some very shady dealers in the Lotus business.

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post #34 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-13-2005, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Chase
I looked all over (too late in the week) for a tip that pointed downwards. The problem is trying to not mess up the QS tips which are not easy to mount to. We did come up with a contraption, but it did not work well enough. I do think downward tips would be an answer. I was thinking I could cut off the QS tips back at where they join the exhaust pipe and then have custom tips welded on. Or just come up with a new custom exhaust. Not sure yet.

The bar we are using now is the largest bar we could use and not have to change the bushings. We have yet to see if we will need a stiffer bar.

On this event, we ran on the SSRs.
Found this from Borla http://www.borla.com/products/product_multi_detail.aspx?cat=3&type=58&desc=Polis hed+Tips|Single+Round+Turndown%2fTurnout
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post #35 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 12:35 AM
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Found another exhuast tip source, Gibson Performance, with more choices and cheaper and it's clamp on.
http://www.gibsonperformance.com/products.asp?pid=19844

Summit Racing has both Borla and Gibson available.
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post #36 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 05:27 PM
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I have seen some people use sillicone tubing with 60 degree + bends fitted over the end of their street or track exhaust tips to get around the sound issue. It might be kind of pricey with two but at least it would work with existing installs and be easy to put on/ take off.
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post #37 of 256 (permalink) Old 03-14-2005, 06:18 PM
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Randy or Rob, have you increased the front caster from the stock positions?
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post #38 of 256 (permalink) Old 04-07-2005, 07:05 PM
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Randy,

How long would the R version of the hoosiers last and were they also difficult to mount? Was the rubbing a big issue or minor?
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post #39 of 256 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z06fun
Randy or Rob, have you increased the front caster from the stock positions?
No.

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post #40 of 256 (permalink) Old 04-08-2005, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyelise
Randy,

How long would the R version of the hoosiers last and were they also difficult to mount? Was the rubbing a big issue or minor?

Have not tried them, but they should last at least a little longer than the A-compound. I'd expect 50-100% - which still isn't enough on the front.

No problems mounting, and rubbing was very minor up front.

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