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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Touring package removal

I'm not sure where to get the information on exactly what parts are considered part of the Touring package. I know that 20lbs of carpet and sound deadening material are allegedly part of the package, but I'd like to know what needs to be done to legally subtract the "touring" option package from a very early 2005 car (VIN under 200).

Equally importantly are there parts I need to add (as replacement to the subtracted parts, or otherwise).

I'm in SSM, so some things may not matter, but it would be nice to list every thing for the folks who want to play in SS too

One thing I am curious about is whether or not you can just take the extra sound deadening material out of the soft top, or if one actually needs to get a different soft top....

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsparv View Post
I'm not sure where to get the information on exactly what parts are considered part of the Touring package. I know that 20lbs of carpet and sound deadening material are allegedly part of the package, but I'd like to know what needs to be done to legally subtract the "touring" option package from a very early 2005 car (VIN under 200).

Equally importantly are there parts I need to add (as replacement to the subtracted parts, or otherwise).

I'm in SSM, so some things may not matter, but it would be nice to list every thing for the folks who want to play in SS too

One thing I am curious about is whether or not you can just take the extra sound deadening material out of the soft top, or if one actually needs to get a different soft top....
Touring Package is 12 lbs.

Leather on door panels
Leather on seats
Power windows instead of manual cranks
Carpeting along slls
Carpeting along "wall" behind seats
Carpeting under seats
Various NVH pads
Nicer stereo
Rear cargo net

Did I forget anything?

.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 06:02 PM
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Re: Touring package removal

Soft top lining that will remove itself un high heat climates

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkSol View Post
Touring Package is 12 lbs.

Leather on door panels
Leather on seats
Power windows instead of manual cranks
Carpeting along slls
Carpeting along "wall" behind seats
Carpeting under seats
Various NVH pads
Nicer stereo
Rear cargo net

Did I forget anything?
i think that's it (maybe different speakers also?). There's foam in the dash. Not sure about the foam being added for touring pack inside the black plastic wall behind the seats.

weight is definitely not 20lbs. More like the 12lbs.

** save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp ** EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs)

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 04:05 AM
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I thought the AC compressor and associated evaporator/condensor coils and tubing was part of the touring package. Probably the heaviest part of the touring package, and way over 12 pounds.

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Was re-reading the rules, and it seems I need documentation of some sort of what the differences were (if such was ever available). Has anyone out there ever actually done this conversion? What documentation did you find/use? It doesn't seem to be in the service manual (they have lots on the different year to year variations to which you might apply options, but seemingly nothing on the options packages themselves).

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 12:23 PM
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A/C was standard in all cars.

It was available as a separate $250 22 lb. "delete" option eventually...

.
d.a..v...i....d

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:58 AM
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Building a NA SSM Elise? Wow. That would be really cool if done 100%.

Or if you are adding forced induction, who cares to remove weight since you'll have to be 2120 anyway.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 11:41 AM
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On that note, Matt, how much weight have you needed to add to meet the SSM minimum? I haven't had a chance to weigh mine since I got the SC added last month...

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
Building a NA SSM Elise? Wow. That would be really cool if done 100%.
Yes it would... and I've very much thought about it.

Unfortunately it's also (by my estimation) cheaper for me to do the super charger. If I were an engine mechanic and could do my own pistons/valves/etc then N/A might be more attainable. But I'm only willing to trust myself bolting on well developed and proven kits. I almost certainly have to pay people to tear apart the engine and labor eats $$ even faster than parts (at least in the Boston area where there aren't so many options).

However, It's unclear when I'll have the money to even do the supercharger... and before the supercharger I should get an LSD into it as well... I think if I get the BOE rev 400 S/C, some lead and the LSD it would be about an 80-85% car. That's about $11k away, and from there to 100% is probably another 5-7k in headers/custom tunes/efi/bigger wheels/misc stuff like monoballs and raceuprights, and probably giving up street legality, which means buying a truck and a trailer.....

Plus the cost of however many transmissions, heads & blocks get eaten between 80% and 100%...

So for now I trim weight where it's cheap and doesn't require professional labor... and then later if I get a supercharger, I can add that weight back on near the front to balance out the front/rear weight ratio somewhat.

But for now, just shaving weight whenever it seems not too hard to do so.

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scapamouche View Post
how much weight have you needed to add to meet the SSM minimum?
Edit: oops misread the question, but anyway...

SSM minimum for N/A (assuming you don't stroke it) is 1805, so 140lbs of non-fuel weight savings would be good enough, the rest can be managed by not running the tank at full. (might need to add a surge tank). At the NE tour (before I added my 30lb wing system) I was 1877 (no 11lb soft-top) on the first day with about 1/5 tank of gas If I shave 12lbs of Touring weight and 20lbs of AC that more or less pays for my overbuilt wing. I don't use a harness so I took out the harness bar and harness which turned out to be about 15lbs. so I'm hoping to run around 1860 this year... if I have time.Don't use the AC much anyway... if the weather is nice I usually take the top off. I may be taking steps to lighten my wing too. I suspect I can take a pound or two off easily and another 5lbs off with a bunch of work.

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Last edited by fsparv; 01-22-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 04:54 AM
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No worries, fsparv... Like you, the NA route would be interesting if I did my own engine work. I know Matt is doing his Elise with the 400 for SSM, and I was curious how close he was able to get without any ballast...

As it is, my Elise is a "fun" car rather than a serious build.... Bubba the CRX is my "serious" car for autox...

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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No need to avoid ballast anymore. Now that it is only "within the bodywork" and not "in the trunk or spare tire well" (the old rule) one can put the weight in more advantageous locations. For example why put the stock battery back in (high and in the tail) when you could put a lead weight in the passenger foot well instead.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:11 AM
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You need a Touring Package Removal Tool..... You can get them at Harbor Freight but I'd suggest a certified Lotus part.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by fsparv View Post
No need to avoid ballast anymore. Now that it is only "within the bodywork" and not "in the trunk or spare tire well" (the old rule) one can put the weight in more advantageous locations. For example why put the stock battery back in (high and in the tail) when you could put a lead weight in the passenger foot well instead.
Have you figured out how much you will need to ballast the car?

I considered running my car is SSM and the amount of weight vs. the space to put it became an issue. I took the density of lead and figured out how thick a sheet could be and how long/wide it could be and I couldn't get the numbers to work. It just didn't weigh enough...........and the cost of lead is surprisingly high once you price it out.

Have you figured it out for your situation?

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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The stock curb weight (which includes full tank) is 1984. You would need a weight of 1600 + ((1.8 + 1.4) * 225) - 200 = 2120 (assuming you don't de-stroke it). That gives you 136 lbs less whatever the super charger weighs. (and you probably won't keep the stock wheels since rotational weight counts twice, so add some back for that).

If you took it down to SSM, NA weight limits and then back up to that's 1805 to 2120 which is 315lbs... almost enough to give you 50-50 weight if yo put it all in the front half. personally I don't expect to get it under 1850 (probably more like 1860) with a 2/3 empty tank since I'm not fond of spending 4 figures on CF parts/seats etc.

So my car would then need a full tank (+30lbs, have to leave some room for the gas you burn during the race) of gas and 220-230lbs of lead... probably. It's only a little worse than adding a 200lb instructor in the passenger seat.

It is worth noting that that much lead can actually start to get expensive at $1.30-$2.20/lb depending on whether you find a way to use reclaimed shot or you go for sheeting.... but keep in mind it's got to be in "segments" of 50lbs or less.

And now you folks can probably guess what I do with my spare time in the winter Read rule books and pretend like I have infinite time and money .

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 08:00 PM
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>1600 + ((1.8 + 1.4) * 225) - 200 = 2120

You mean
1600 + ((1.8 * 1.4) * 225) - 200 = 1967
for a supercharged car?

I need some time with a rule book and a calculator...

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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by philethier View Post
>1600 + ((1.8 + 1.4) * 225) - 200 = 2120

You mean
1600 + ((1.8 * 1.4) * 225) - 200 = 1967
for a supercharged car?

I need some time with a rule book and a calculator...
That would be the way prepared classes account for super chargers. Street mod is "special" it uses addition not multiplication.

STREET MODIFIED CATEGORY
Engine Classifications
1. Four-stroke cycle and two-stroke cycle naturally aspirated internal
combustion engines will be classified on the basis of actual piston
displacement.
2. Supercharged or turbocharged SM and SSM engines will be classified
on a basis of adding 1.4L to the actual displacement. Forced
induction SMF engines will add 1.0L to the actual displacement.

Ran across this thread again and despite my assertions above, I actually do plan to take the N/A route for a while because I can do that with only one or two mods over 3k, so I'll peck away at it as budget allows until I get to the bottom end. Then we will have to make a real decision on the matter. Even if I do go S/C later most of what I do will just make that better when I get there. Sometime last year I lent my car to a top driver(multi national trophies) and even with the open diff and before the PPE header/underdrive pulleys/anti-gravity it was within .3 sec of a Z06 driver that one race later had top pax at a Match Tour... on tires that corded on the last run of the event.

Unfortunately at nats said tour paxing driver had a bad day (3 dirty runs day 2). So comparison gets a bit tenuous, but folks in SS he outpaxed on that tour ran 2.5 seconds slower than the top SSM time, so 1.25 seconds between SS and SSM, add .25 to .5 for good measure

So based on that, the car is probably about 1.5-1.75 seconds slower than class leaders on a 60 second course (the driver's another matter but I'm working on that too ).

So I'm thinking it will at least be interesting to see what can be done with N/A if I drop 30-40 lbs, and add in some real N/A power mods and an LSD, fat tires etc.

2005 Lotus Elise, Starlight Black # 111 SSM NER SCCA Solo - 1835lbs up to 1.65 Lat [email protected]~55mph (asphalt) 193whp 142wtq Normally Aspirated.

http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-07-2014, 10:48 AM
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So based on that, the car is probably about 1.5-1.75 seconds slower than class leaders on a 60 second course (the driver's another matter but I'm working on that too ).

So I'm thinking it will at least be interesting to see what can be done with N/A if I drop 30-40 lbs, and add in some real N/A power mods and an LSD, fat tires etc.
Be careful with your bench racing. I'm pretty sure there's a way for me to find two events to line up that would make my car the fastest car there is. I also think that your 1.5-1.75 is probably optimistic and exceptionally course dependent. Example: I was .6 off of the class leader on the west course (momentum course) and I was 1.9 off on the east course which was a power course. I'm making 270 at the wheels.

I have a 2008. I had to add 70lbs in the passenger area and roughly 30lbs in the front of the car by the sway bar. There is a huge cavity up there for ballast to be stored and you couldn't ask for a better spot. I also run the hard top, a big battery, a supercharger, a surge tank, a big exhaust, big wheels/tires, a wing and a stereo with an amp. At a full tank, the car is probably about 30lbs over weight right now. Before the wing and splitter, I HAD to run a full tank to make weight... I mean, I would take a fuel can to grid and fill up before my last run.

Anyway, go for it. It'll be cool for sure.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
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Be careful with your bench racing. I'm pretty sure there's a way for me to find two events to line up that would make my car the fastest car there is. I also think that your 1.5-1.75 is probably optimistic
When have you ever seen pessimistic bench racing.

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Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
and exceptionally course dependent. Example: I was .6 off of the class leader on the west course (momentum course) and I was 1.9 off on the east course which was a power course. I'm making 270 at the wheels.
Well true, but I'm not comparing my times vs the leaders, the guy who drove my car who's times I am comparing has 3 national trophies in ES (a 4th, a 3rd and a 2nd IIRC). The Vette driver has out paxed him multiple times in the past. So I've more or less eliminated my driving inadequacies... I see you have a 4th in STR 2 years ago, he may be a bit faster.

However, I didn't spend any time hunting for the fastest combination. I merely took the vette driver without examining other comparisons because he won the regional championship trophy and top pax 3-4 times in our region in 2012. Normally I would have used our top street mod car for comparison but they missed that race.

It is of course also very very true that for each step in a transitive relationship there is an error term and it may be that the course that day favored my car. Or the vette driver may have been on old tires ... etc.

50% more power is useful at times OTOH 15% more lightness acts over the entire course so the only true test is to build it and drive it. Hope I can find the funds to get there and develop (or recruit) the skill to do it justice .

Quote:
Originally Posted by glagola1 View Post
I have a 2008. I had to add 70lbs in the passenger area and roughly 30lbs in the front of the car by the sway bar. There is a huge cavity up there for ballast to be stored and you couldn't ask for a better spot. I also run the hard top, a big battery, a supercharger, a surge tank, a big exhaust, big wheels/tires, a wing and a stereo with an amp. At a full tank, the car is probably about 30lbs over weight right now. Before the wing and splitter, I HAD to run a full tank to make weight... I mean, I would take a fuel can to grid and fill up before my last run.

Anyway, go for it. It'll be cool for sure.
Is the huge cavity the steering rack tube? Or somewhere else? obviously putting the weight up front helps balance the car. I'm also curious what your max (sustained) lateral G measurements are. The number in my sig is the best I've been able to achieve in the logs I've taken, but 1.35-1.4 is more common. I ignore any spike that is more than .1 G higher than the neighboring measurements (those have gone as high as 2.8 but that's clearly the device wiggling around on bumps or something... I probably need to come up with a better mount or switch to something I can bolt down).

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http://www.the111shift.com/p/the-build.html

https://www.youtube.com/c/the111shift
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