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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-19-2014 12:48 PM
jds62f not 100% for sure, but I don't believe you'll encounter either of those problems in slotted rotors
12-19-2014 07:59 AM
craigyirush Thanks. Will take a look at it.

Do slotted rotors have less of these kinds of problems - grooving and cracking and dishing?
12-19-2014 06:53 AM
jds62f drilled rotors are going to groove over time, I'm not sure if its all the time but I know I've seen it before. There's a post in the Evora forum with someone asking about if its normal.
12-18-2014 08:09 PM
craigyirush Thanks, Todd. Will call you tomorrow. Will PM if I can't find your number.

Re the brakes - the tech is claiming they are grooved and so can't be turned b/c would then be below 24mm. Plus he said turning not recommended for track use. If he's right my complaint is about the surface of the rotor not the thickness.

As for the bushings no one seems to know what's acceptable migration (if any) short of the control arm hitting the chassis.

FWIW, my tech used to wrench on an Exige in Pirelli World Challenge so I assume he knows what he's talking about.
12-18-2014 07:54 PM
ToddSanDiego Craig, call me tomorrow if you still have my phone number. I am a dealer and I can tell you exactly what they are responsible for.
12-18-2014 04:59 AM
Aedo
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
So gaps between the bushing and the control are OK? What would you consider unacceptable migration, and what is your assessment based on?
They look just like the ones on my Westfield after many years of hard use... if you're worried I'd get a knowledgeable Lotus race tech to look at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
I mispoke on the rotors. Here's what my tech said about them -

"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."
...
Given that those rotors have ~50% life left in them I have to wonder why the tech suggested replacing them. Which also has me questioning his opinion on the bushes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DealsGapCobra View Post
So the rotors are too close to be turned but still nearly 50% of their life? Are they warped? If so, did you not notice this on a test drive? I honestly don't see the complaint on the brakes.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this car?
Exactly.
12-18-2014 04:43 AM
DealsGapCobra
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."
So the rotors are too close to be turned but still nearly 50% of their life? Are they warped? If so, did you not notice this on a test drive? I honestly don't see the complaint on the brakes.

Maybe I missed it, but how many miles are on this car?
12-17-2014 09:42 AM
craigyirush
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aedo View Post
I don't have specific Lotus bushing experience... but those look fine to me.


For reference new is 26mm, and minimum is 24mm... so "a mm" is 50%.
So gaps between the bushing and the control are OK? What would you consider unacceptable migration, and what is your assessment based on?

I mispoke on the rotors. Here's what my tech said about them -

"The service limit for the rotors is 24mm, this means that if they are below 24 mm they should be replaced. Your front rotors were at 24.9 mm, which is too close to consider turning the rotor. The rear rotors were at 25.1 mm on the left and 24.7 on the right."

To all who said get an independent PPI. I know! I broke my own rule here b/c they are a dealer . . .
12-16-2014 04:01 AM
lotus90 Always do a PPI by independent shop. They do not call them stealers for nothing
12-15-2014 09:08 PM
forkmeupscotty Bushing migration is a know issue.
Lotus attempted to 'fix' it by putting the bushing in from the other direction on later cars.
I'd say it's an eventual wear/maintenance item, and you can either put new stock ones in every few years or put polyurethane ones or put in spherical bearings.
It's a 10 year old car now. Maybe it's a good time to do a full suspension refresh
12-15-2014 08:48 PM
PV=nRT My two cents: NEVER, EVER buy a car (any car, new or used) without an INDEPENDENT pre-purchase inspection! After getting a severely defective certified preowned Porsche, I did some pretty extensive research into cars marketed though dealers. They have gotten their monies worth from the lobby industry and it is truly staggering the shady practices that go on for new and used cars. I now try to buy from dealers that have checked out as trustworthy AND that will stand behind a problem. I also drive to the adjacent state that has a much better lemon law then my own. It's a pain, but no where near as much of a pain as the three years I have spent trying to resolve the $100,000 defective piece of crap Porsche with its 119 or whatever point inspection. (Thank you Jim Ellis Porsche and Porsche of North America).

Try and work out a fair resolution with the dealer directly. You may find they worry a lot more about negative social media and yelp type reviews then anything legal.
12-15-2014 05:22 PM
Aedo
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
...
Would be interested to hear from others what they think of the condition/migration of the bushings.
...
I don't have specific Lotus bushing experience... but those look fine to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyirush View Post
...
One or more of the rotors was beyond the acceptable wear; the others just above (by a mm or less).
...
For reference new is 26mm, and minimum is 24mm... so "a mm" is 50%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by road racer View Post
...
The whole point of buying used from a dealer (and paying more) and not private party is that you shouldn't have to do a PPI.
Yes... but you are really paying more because there is backup is something actually goes wrong (engine failure etc) within a short time of you leaving the dealer. From this perspective I think the dealer should fix the AC, as they claimed it was working, but the other items are all service items (and not all necessary by the look of it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by road racer View Post
...
My brother runs a tiny boutique used car dealership (no Lotus) and something like this would never ever get out of his shop.
...
That is great to hear!!
12-15-2014 02:56 PM
sprocket3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jds62f View Post
The sentiment is that way because the OP asked about legal liability. The dealer charges more because they have significantly higher overhead costs than a private party. People pay more for the reasons you cite - that dealers have the facilities and knowledge to check out the car and sell them something that has had qualified eyes look it over. That doesn't mean that they do, and it certainly doesn't mean that they are legally liable.

Does it mean they're crappy? Well yea, but that wasn't the question. What the dealer 'owes' is a matter of negotiation, as OP is clearly not going to use them in the future and already has damaged their reputation. If 'owes' is bound by the law, they probably don't owe anything, as the sale was as-is. If 'owes' is bound by good customer service, then they probably should compensate some how, but it sounds like the OP should already know what to expect based on car condition and the fact that they never returned his call.
We all know about the Pillow Talk during the sales process, but the truth is in the "AS-IS" disclosure which is what you're going to battle in court. $2,000 will get a couple letters passed back and forth with their attorney.
12-15-2014 02:33 PM
jds62f The sentiment is that way because the OP asked about legal liability. The dealer charges more because they have significantly higher overhead costs than a private party. People pay more for the reasons you cite - that dealers have the facilities and knowledge to check out the car and sell them something that has had qualified eyes look it over. That doesn't mean that they do, and it certainly doesn't mean that they are legally liable.

Does it mean they're crappy? Well yea, but that wasn't the question. What the dealer 'owes' is a matter of negotiation, as OP is clearly not going to use them in the future and already has damaged their reputation. If 'owes' is bound by the law, they probably don't owe anything, as the sale was as-is. If 'owes' is bound by good customer service, then they probably should compensate some how, but it sounds like the OP should already know what to expect based on car condition and the fact that they never returned his call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by road racer View Post
Doesn't sound to me like there's a legal case here, but I'm surprised at the general sentiment of the thread, that it's up to you to do due diligence, that the dealer owes you little if nothing, etc.

The whole point of buying used from a dealer (and paying more) and not private party is that you shouldn't have to do a PPI. The dealer would normally recondition the car to something they would be proud of. My brother runs a tiny boutique used car dealership (no Lotus) and something like this would never ever get out of his shop. It's disgusting and it speaks volumes as to the integrity of this dealership. Thanks for naming them.
12-15-2014 12:57 PM
road racer I have to temper my last comment. You didn't tell us how much you paid for the car. If you got a real bargain, now you know why.
12-15-2014 12:37 PM
road racer Doesn't sound to me like there's a legal case here, but I'm surprised at the general sentiment of the thread, that it's up to you to do due diligence, that the dealer owes you little if nothing, etc.

The whole point of buying used from a dealer (and paying more) and not private party is that you shouldn't have to do a PPI. The dealer would normally recondition the car to something they would be proud of. My brother runs a tiny boutique used car dealership (no Lotus) and something like this would never ever get out of his shop. It's disgusting and it speaks volumes as to the integrity of this dealership. Thanks for naming them.
12-15-2014 12:25 PM
sprocket3 I'd be more concerned about the tie-rod ends failing than those bushings. Have these been upgraded?
12-12-2014 03:53 PM
craigyirush The tech said the bushings are close to metal to metal, but yes no contact yet. The front bushings are fine

He also knows I plan to track the car so his assessment of what is acceptable bushing migration might be based on that.

Would be interested to hear from others what they think of the condition/migration of the bushings.

One or more of the rotors was beyond the acceptable wear; the others just above (by a mm or less).

They told me the A/C had been recharged. I stupidly didn't try it on the lot. When I put it on on the way home, it just blew warm. I have a picture of the compressor with fluid leaking out.

I've already done the oil, brake fluid and transmission fluid. They had no service records for the car so afaik all those fluids could have been years/many miles past their best. My tech said the airfilter and serpentine belt are fine as are the brake pads.
12-12-2014 09:59 AM
sprocket3 I don't see any signs of metal to metal contact. I'd jack up the car and see if you can get any movement in the joints. I haven't looked at this issue before, but I think this would be classified at normal wear. Others might have higher millage cars and be able to give better info though.

You could ask them to change oil, brake fluid, and fix the compressor for you as a customer courtesy. Most dealers change the oil before selling the car so it looks clean to the new buyers. Makes the buyer feel all warm and fuzzy to see nice fresh oil on the dipstick like the car was well maintained. It's the basics of sales on the lot as the cost is really low to them. I bet they did this for the $40 in materials, but you never know. I don't think you will get anywhere playing hardball though as you don't have any strong cards.

The disks are black and white. They are within spec, or out of spec. Close to replacement doesn't mean they needed to be replaced when you bought the car.

To me it sounds like the new tech nit-picked your car over and pointed out some very minor issues (or non-issues) on a 10 year old car.

Aside from the compressor you don't have any required repairs correct?
12-12-2014 09:32 AM
craigyirush Thanks for the Sector 111 link. Here are the photos of my rear suspension bushings.

To be clear - I didn't get a PPI b/c they told me the car had been thoroughly inspected and had no issues.
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