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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone, Im still a bit new and this is my first time with a problem. REALLY hoping someone out in Lotus world can give some insight. Heres the short....
I recently purchased a 2005 Elise with the Katana II supercharger and for about a month my life was awesome!! (Thanks Nick for the sale!!) Anyway I was having trouble with a dead battery and jumped the car using jumper cables. The problem is that it was dark and I was in such a rush to show someone the car that I (EEEEEK! GET READY FOR IT) switch the black/red cables on the car. The wires, as you could imagine got hot, and started to smoke and removed them quickly :facepalm Yes, there was a spark and yes, I put them on anyway. And yes, I literally kick myself daily.
So....I waited a few minutes and re-jumped it and all went well. I drove the car and everything seemed normal, until the temp gauage came on and the care began to warm up to operating temps. The PROBLEM IS that the car WILL NOT rev past 6k. The shift light comes on at about 6k and all that good stuff I just cant rev past 6k. (And as you all know there is A LOT of fun past 6k) I tried reconnecting the car battery and then popped a code (P0012 "Camshaft position timing over - Retarded Bank 1) I tried calling my local Toyota dealership and they literally told me to "Not bring that car here. We dont touch those." I jumped on the forums and learned about the fuses in the two black boxes up against the fire wall....changed them with no improvement. So I took it to a great local shop and this is what the mechanic checked, per his notes:
-Checked power at VVTI control solenoid. Has 12 volts when running. Computer not grounding to activate.
-Checked computer inputs:
MAF
Coolant Temp
02 sensors
all ok pressures and all operating normal
According to the that mechanic and Sector 111 they are taking an educated guess thatit is the ECU and that shooting reveresed polarity screwed up something in the ECU itself.
Again the car feels absolutely normal but wont rev past 6k and I still have the check engine light. I was going to purchase an ECU from somewhere and send it to Sector 111 to have it tuned. Im willing to do this but would like to see if someone has any better ideas as this is going to cost me a pretty penny?!
Thanks to anyone to takes the time to read and respond...I really appreciate it....as you know there is A LOT of fun from 6k to redline!! Plus Id like to fix the problem ASAP and not have to face my wife on a daily basis!:up:
Frankie
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
05' Elise ECU problem?!? NEED HELP from someone with experience!!

Hey everyone, Im still a bit new and this is my first time with a problem. REALLY hoping someone out in Lotus world can give some insight. Heres the short....
I recently purchased a 2005 Elise with the Katana II supercharger and for about a month my life was awesome!! (Thanks Nick for the sale!!) Anyway I was having trouble with a dead battery and jumped the car using jumper cables. The problem is that it was dark and I was in such a rush to show someone the car that I (EEEEEK! GET READY FOR IT) switch the black/red cables on the car. The wires, as you could imagine got hot, and started to smoke and removed them quickly :facepalm Yes, there was a spark and yes, I put them on anyway. And yes, I literally kick myself daily.
So....I waited a few minutes and re-jumped it and all went well. I drove the car and everything seemed normal, until the temp gauage came on and the care began to warm up to operating temps. The PROBLEM IS that the car WILL NOT rev past 6k. The shift light comes on at about 6k and all that good stuff I just cant rev past 6k. (And as you all know there is A LOT of fun past 6k) I tried reconnecting the car battery and then popped a code (P0012 "Camshaft position timing over - Retarded Bank 1) I tried calling my local Toyota dealership and they literally told me to "Not bring that car here. We dont touch those." I jumped on the forums and learned about the fuses in the two black boxes up against the fire wall....changed them with no improvement. So I took it to a great local shop and this is what the mechanic checked, per his notes:
-Checked power at VVTI control solenoid. Has 12 volts when running. Computer not grounding to activate.
-Checked computer inputs:
MAF
Coolant Temp
02 sensors
all ok pressures and all operating normal
According to the that mechanic and Sector 111 they are taking an educated guess thatit is the ECU and that shooting reveresed polarity screwed up something in the ECU itself.
Again the car feels absolutely normal but wont rev past 6k and I still have the check engine light. I was going to purchase an ECU from somewhere and send it to Sector 111 to have it tuned. Im willing to do this but would like to see if someone has any better ideas as this is going to cost me a pretty penny?!
Thanks to anyone to takes the time to read and respond...I really appreciate it....as you know there is A LOT of fun from 6k to redline!! Plus Id like to fix the problem ASAP and not have to face my wife on a daily basis!:up:
Frankie
[email protected]
 

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Sorry about the misfortune Frank. I would say the ECU would be a good place to start but like you said it will cost you some money. ECU's come up for sale on the forum from time to time or you can get a new one from My Lotus Garage for about $600. Then you will have to have Sector111 flash it for your supercharger set up. Not sure how much that would be.

Lotus Elise Parts Catalog
 

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If it was in limp home mode it would have reduced power throughout the power band. You could try clearing the code with an OBDII scan tool.
 

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Vendor
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If it was in limp home mode it would have reduced power throughout the power band...
Interesting. What would have you come to this conclusion?

-Phil
 

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Interesting. What would have you come to this conclusion?

-Phil
My Elise had an intermittent electronic throttle problem when I first got it. It would turn the check engine light on and put the car in limp home mode. When it was in limp mode it was at reduced power even in the low RPM range. Clear the code and it was back to normal.
 

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:popcorn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yea good think you guys. I forgot to mention I did clear the code as one of the first quick fix solutions. I cleared it, went for a drive and it revved to normal rpm's in first gear, then the light came on and it started to only go to 6k again (and the engine was warmed too.) Anything anyone else can think of before I drop money on a new ECU? Sector 111 can ship me on already chipped for 1250$ (EEEEEEeeeek!) Anyone familiar with trouble shooting the P0012 code?
 

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My Elise had an intermittent electronic throttle problem when I first got it. It would turn the check engine light on and put the car in limp home mode. When it was in limp mode it was at reduced power even in the low RPM range. Clear the code and it was back to normal.
Guess I'll take your word for it. While there are certainly a few stones left unturned in the stock ECU, the normal limp home parameter just enables a lower rev limit. We turn this off frequently on race cars that remove sensors or are willing to run the motor despite a failed sensor. I've yet to have a car that we turned the limp rev limiter to a 0 reduction ever go into an alternate limp mode where the ECU limits power in some other way. There may be a map on the DBW cars for an alternate and more aggressive limp mode with a DBW failure that enables throttle opening limit, but haven't ran into it yet. Certainly may be there... will have a look...

I can say for sure that in most instances (failed knock, IAT, VVL pressure, etc), limp home is just a lower rev limit and nothing else.

Yea good think you guys. I forgot to mention I did clear the code as one of the first quick fix solutions. I cleared it, went for a drive and it revved to normal rpm's in first gear, then the light came on and it started to only go to 6k again (and the engine was warmed too.) Anything anyone else can think of before I drop money on a new ECU? Sector 111 can ship me on already chipped for 1250$ (EEEEEEeeeek!) Anyone familiar with trouble shooting the P0012 code?
You may have blown the driver to the VVT solenoid or the solenoid could just be fried. I'd at least ohm out the solenoids to see if they're within spec as a starting point. Perhaps Sector would loan you an ECU to help where you pay the for the ECU and if it doesn't solve the problem you send the ECU back and they send your money back....


-Phil
 

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" I forgot to mention I did clear the code as one of the first quick fix solutions. I cleared it, went for a drive and it revved to normal rpm's in first gear, then the light came on and it started to only go to 6k again "

There you go....somewhere along the line one of the sensor is bad -- P0012 "could be" a bad camshaft timing position sensor...that's my educated guess.
I can feel rotfl , rotfl the timing is badly retarding as soon as the P0012 engine fault code pop up. Effective way of controlling (detonation) the engine in case of catastrophic failure.
The crank sensor used in combination with a similar camshaft position sensor to monitor the relationship between the pistons and valves in the engine, which is particularly important in engines with variable valve timing.

Note: crankshaft sensor has thermistor an electrical device that holds resistance. Thermistor receives 5 volts reference through a pull up resistor. This 5v reference must be present
all the time when the engine is running, if not - either or is the problem.
The thermistor is in the sensor and the pull up resistor usually in the motherboard of the ecu (one of the pin is 5v). Could be one of them is the problem. If the pull up resistor is bad, the resistor only cost a penny and someone can solder/replace it for you (google ecu service a bunch of them around) rather than buying another ecu. If the thermistor is bad....simply buy a sensor.


Limp mode (i called it limp node hahaha!) has VARIATIONS OF SYMPTOMS - we gonna be here the whole day to explain or discuss it.

For the meantime....try to get a good used camshaft sensor and try it.
Could have been jolted when you married 2 wrong polarity.
That's why Miss Negative can't marry Miss Negative & Mr. positive is a no no to marry Mr. Positive....rotfl rotfl rotfl - (just kidding dude)

...as i said, this is just my educated guess - disregard it if you think & feel my mind is derailed....i'm just suggesting where to look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I thought maybe the sensor associated with cam gear engagement might be fried too but I can hear the cam shaft change like it should at 46000rpm (remember its tuned.). I think it's a good idea to check the omz on the solenoid like previously suggested before I drop $$$$ on a new ECU. Thanks for the suggestion by the way! But also remember the mechanic found that the "computer is not grounding to actively the VVTI control solenoid?" Sounds ECU(ish) to me? But what do I know I'm a nurse! Ill keep the post updated and check back for any other other opinions often. Thanks for the advice!!
 

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Gamera The Atomic Turtle
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^ that would work.
 

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I don't see on your post where the mechanic tried clearing the code.
If the "check engine" light is still on, I would get an OBD II reader, get the Torque App (it is great to have anyway), check to see what that code says (probably the cam code), try clearing it with the app, and then see how it runs. Total investment will be about $35.00 and it is something you will use time and again anyway.
For OBD II Readers that work, do a search. There is a thread somewhere and I think several choices listed - including a post by me of which one I have.

Good Luck!
 

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Bump *. Help!

You can't just post "bump & help"
People are helping you but you are not reporting (or maybe not doing anything) the fix procedure they advised. We are not looking at the crystal ball. You have to do this in steps.

My advice: you concentrate on what the code was flagging: P0012. Engine code is there to help pinpoint (80% of the time) where to look. Your troubleshooting will get complex & convoluted when someone start giving you an advice unrelated to P0012.
If you are not capable solving it....might as well bring it to reputable mechanic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@emiaj. I gotta say sorry! Didnt mean to come off rude. I literally had to google "bump in forums" because I'd seen it but didn't really understand the meaning. I knew it would get my post viewed more and possibly more "fix-it" ideas. I just didn't realize it would come off rude. I absolutely appreciate the insight given and will follow up accordingly. But at 1250$ for new ecu it's gonna take a little time.
Phil has a great idea about calling BOE which ill do in the morning.
Anyone know the specific sensor to "check" associated with the P0012 code? And where it is? Seems I can check that quickly.
Again sorry to all that are trying to help.



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