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Dreaming of Lotus
2005 Elise Sport Touring
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all, thanks for your time.

I am heading towards a Rev400 but want to upgrade the brakes before I kill myself (probably inevitable but hey). From research I should not go with a BBK and rather radial mounted rear calipers using stock front calipers or ap calipers. So my questions are:

1. Further research seemed to suggest that just doing that makes the car too rear biased and I would need the bias cage. Is that a fair assumption?
2. Should I replace rotors and pads when I do this?
3. Lastly, I'd be asking the dealer to do this so they are likely to pedal the exige S240/S260 front calipers to do this, would that be fine?
 

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Follow Boe's recommendations, they know what they are talking about. FYI the stock front calipers are AP calipers. What I have done is stock 44mm piston fronts and 38.1mm piston AP rears, mounted on Boe radial mounts, that will give you an acceptable front to rear brake bias. I ordered my rear calipers from TMS Motorsport in the UK, delivery time is about 3 month, or you can buy them directly from Boe, but you pay more. Part # are CP5316-3S0 and CP5316-2S0. With the AP calipers and pads in the rear, you are sweeping a wider area of the rotor, so it is a good idea to buy new rotors, or have yours machined if there enough material left.
 
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He's on fire!
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If you have a street car, even with a rev 400 I think I'd just recommend a really nice set of brake pads. Carbotech AX6, Glock R6, something like that. If you're street only I think screwing around with the brake bias is not going to be very beneficial.
 

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Jds is correct on both topics.
 

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2007 Lotus Exige S
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I'll third not needing to upgrade the brakes for street driving, I believe even Phil used the stock rear calipers on track for a while with higher HP numbers. If you do upgrade just the rear calipers I would recommend the smaller piston size than the stock fronts, if you use the same exact caliper from the front you will end up with too much rear bias. The bias cage BOE has eliminates the brake booster form my understanding, just be aware of that if you go that route. If you're going to run the bias cage might as well also run a bigger front caliper then you could use the stock sized calipers on the rear. There are a few decisions to make once you start upgrading the brakes. I'd also recommend either new rotors or having them surfaced so the new pad shape will work well. The 4 piston front brakes from the S240/260 I do not think fit back there or would provide too much rear bias.
 

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Dreaming of Lotus
2005 Elise Sport Touring
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you guys, that answers that question... Should I make a new thread to ask about clutches and Rev400? Or shall I hijack this one?

Basically i'm on a stock clutch now. I've read several people that upgrade to the Rev series without upgrading the clutch. Which might seem crazy, but if nothing bad can happen besides needing a new clutch very quickly, then it makes sense not to upgrade until there's a real problem.
 

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Why do you think you need more threads when these questions have already been covered? We seem to have gotten away from searching. Adding to a thread keeps the info condensed, btw.

Since we don't know mileage on your clutch, hard to tell.



see last entry:

Note to new Elise & Exige Owners:



1. These cars have large (i.e. dangerous) blind spots. Multivex mirrors are NLA, but RLS (Really Light Stuff) offers very good tape-on replacements.

2. The horns are way too weak (quiet). There’s an inverse relationship: smaller the car, louder the horn needs to be.

Get something such as a Stebel Nautilus.

Stebel: “HONK! LOOK OUT!”


Remove the stock horn; replace with louder.



(I drive with my finger on the horn button in any traffic. Iffy situations, my headlights are on.



Stay to the left of traffic, i.e. avoid passing on the right if you can.



Stop way behind trucks, SUVs, etc. Some have blindspots >50’. )



3. The early cars came with misaimed and dim headlights. If you drive at night, convert to HIDs. While better than stock halogen bulbs are available, HIDs throw more light. Stay around 5000k. As of this writing LEDs are not as good.



4. Ensure your car has had the work required by the recall for oil line fittings done. You could lose an engine and/or spin in your own oil.



5. Transmission:



The best transmission lube I’ve found is Redline MT-90 plus a little Power Punch Extreme Gear Oil Additive. (Note that it takes two changes to get rid of the previous lube.)



a) Early cars have wobbly shift towers. Look up Stan’s Mod (bolt and spacer; http://www.billswebspace.com/ShifterReinforcement.pdf) and



And, use:

Re-Enforcer long thru bolts that terminate under car and tie down the tower:

https://www.inokinetic.com/lotus/re-enforcer?category=Transmission



These (lube, mods) make a huge change in shifting.



6. As per some engine builders on these sites, wait AT LEAST 20 -35 minutes aftercoolant has reached full operating temp before engaging cam switchover.



For street cars, consider removing one or both oil coolers. Some cover them. Oil doesn’t get hot enough on street, leading to cam wiping.



I use Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel oil. 85k miles and fine, but one is not a useful example.



7. Rear toe-links can loosen and break with disastrous results. You can check tq periodically, or use Nordlock washers. Best is conversion to better engineered brace, such as BOE’s InoKinetic’s for two examples.



8. While under the car with panel off, look around for hoses and wires chafing their way to failure. That’s how this was found:




9. The stock radiators are prone to leaking where the end caps meet the metal part. Keep an eye on this. Most of us use single-pass all-aluminum radiators.



10. When your wheel well liner comes loose, skip the lame plastic rivet and use Well-Nuts instead.



11. Life will be better if you disable the auto-arming alarm function on the earlier cars. You won’t have to press a button to start the car. Instructions:



Remote Key Fob, Immobilizer & Misc Alarm Programming



12. These cars cannot be left off a Battery Tender for weeks at a time. Unless dead batteries are a particular joy of yours. Buy one right away. There are numerous threads here about which ppl use and like.



You NEED a digital multimeter (voltmeter) to work on modern cars. Handy around house too. Get one this week.



13, Some on this site are a bit obsessed with hockey pucks for lifting the car. Don’t use these. Too hard and slippery, generally, and too small a surface area. Use a piece of wood, as your hero does.



14. If you are fooling with sparkplugs, remember to slather those tubes in dielectric grease (prevents shorts).



15. Visit the Uber Thread



**Elise/Exige Uberpost READ THIS. Everything you need to know is in here**



16. Most parts on the car are made by Toyota and others, so buying things like a/c compressors, engine parts, etc. is wildly expensive when purchased thru Lotus.

Toyota dealers, auto parts stores are way less expensive.



17. The soft high-grip tires on most of our cars lose much of that grip when temperatures drop below 50 F. I know of too many ppl who spun their cars when not remembering this. I use hi-performance all-seasons.



Note that many summer tires cannot even be stored in temps below 20 F.



-----

Plus, “How to bleed brakes”:

How to Bleed Brakes



How to Search:

For future reference: Don't use the search on this site. Simply use Google and end the search text with "site:lotustalk.com". E.g.
Transmission Fluid change what bolt site:lotustalk.com
no space betweensite:lotustalk.com
 

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Dreaming of Lotus
2005 Elise Sport Touring
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
55k miles. I do search, as I specified in my OP I did research prior to creating this thread. But feeling uncomfortable comes naturally in large purchases and I never found an answer to my one question strictly speaking:

If you overpower the clutch are there any other consequences besides needing a new clutch? Could I totally break the trans or something worse? I don't see a reason to preemptively replace the clutch if nothing is broken yet. My searching and research was inconclusive.

My previous search produced the clutches I should use, and that some people safely get away with NOT replacing the clutch. But I did not find an answer to my question.
 

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If your clutch begins to slip, you'll notice. It's not likely to explode or anything. Your mileage is low enough to leave it in situ.

My clutch was over 80k and was changed. Merely a Rev300. The car is quite fast and I'm glad I did not get the 400.

I think you could have looked this up for any stick shift car on Google.
 

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He's on fire!
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After the fact, it should be easy to know if the existing clutch is up to the task just by flooring the accelerator and seeing if it holds the power. If it doesn't, my guess is that beyond eventually needing a new clutch, worst case scenario would be that you wouldn't be able to move the car with a worn out or broken clutch.

Who's doing the installation, and is there benefit to doing the clutch while they are at it? There's probably minimal work saved, but you'll disconnect a bunch of stuff if you're doing an SC installation... whatever the overlap is between that and a clutch change is time someone will save.

My final thought is, if you're spending a whole bunch of money on Rev400, why move forward on a clutch that is most certainly not rated for the additional power? I'd want to do it right the first time if it were my car.
 

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Dreaming of Lotus
2005 Elise Sport Touring
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the thoughtful answers.

If your clutch begins to slip, you'll notice. It's not likely to explode or anything. Your mileage is low enough to leave it in situ.

My clutch was over 80k and was changed. Merely a Rev300. The car is quite fast and I'm glad I did not get the 400.

I think you could have looked this up for any stick shift car on Google.
We're just not talking about any stick car though and removing protections is just the type of thing that might have been done with this car.

Now the only other note that I failed to divulge is that the dealer mentioned the clutch catches pretty high, suggesting it will slip soon. But research here suggests that these cars often catch high. So I have reason to be conservative and question the dealer.

FWIW, I was going to go Rev300, but research here concluded that "doing it right the first time" and avoiding double-dip on installation costs convinced me of the 400.

Who's doing the installation, and is there benefit to doing the clutch while they are at it? There's probably minimal work saved, but you'll disconnect a bunch of stuff if you're doing an SC installation... whatever the overlap is between that and a clutch change is time someone will save.
The dealer is doing the work, they have done rev series installations before. They said there was minimal to no overlap installing a clutch with the supercharger, but of course they would.

My final thought is, if you're spending a whole bunch of money on Rev400, why move forward on a clutch that is most certainly not rated for the additional power? I'd want to do it right the first time if it were my car.
Agreed, my only hesitations here are:
1. dealer has made a couple of mistakes on me with trivial work, so having them change more than absolutely necessary comes with unnecessary risk.
2. My research here and on the FB group led me to want to get the ACT HDSS clutch, but the dealer wants me to put in the exige S240 clutch. Which was explicitly contradictory to my research, so I'd have to press on that. More risk.

Philosophically I want to do it right he first time, that's why I started a thread about brakes before power. But I'm just resolving what are the right moves before power to make and you guys have been very helpful. Thank you.


@jds62f tips hat at TF2 reference
 

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Now the only other note that I failed to divulge is that the dealer mentioned the clutch catches pretty high, suggesting it will slip soon. But research here suggests that these cars often catch high. So I have reason to be conservative and question the dealer.

Your dealer does not know what they are talking about or are trying to sell you something you might not need. The Elige clutch is hydraulic, it self adjusts as the disc wears. With a cable operated clutch, the release will become higher on the pedal as it wears.

Using a stock clutch will be easier on your transmission because it will slip at lower torque, acting like a fuse. Slip it too much and it will wear out or glaze over in a short amount of time. I know the stock clutch has been used successfully with the Rev300/400 on the street, but every situation is different.

Sure you don't want to take your car to a competent independent mechanic?
 

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My car came to me with REV300 and ACT HD SS clutch as recommended by BOE when PO upgraded. It had XP10F and XP8R which were killer on the track and could pop your contacts out on track with stock calipers but were to grabby, noisy and dirty for the street. I switched to RC5+ and used them on the track as well and are a great brake pad for all around use.
 
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For a street car, if you're concerned about stopping distances, you really need to be looking at wheels and tires. The stock brakes have poor bias but what's even worse is the bicycle tires on the front.
 

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Are there other Lotus owners in Seattle area? If so,

See what mechanics they use. (Check out other foreign/performance car clubs if necessary

Drive a 300 and a 400; see if you really need the 400. Intercooled is good for track work, but not as important on street.

I like, as mentioned, the 300 simpler and a lot less plumbing.
 

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Why do you think you need more threads when these questions have already been covered? We seem to have gotten away from searching. Adding to a thread keeps the info condensed, btw.

Since we don't know mileage on your clutch, hard to tell.



see last entry:

Note to new Elise & Exige Owners:
........
Why do you always post this in full text. It makes reading the thread difficult. Can't you post a link?
 

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Yes, it's surely difficult to scroll past all that. Please don't hurt yourself.
 

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Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with GLB doing that. It helps provide additional info that people may have questions to. Maybe, you can post some helpful information instead of having some negative feedback on actually someone trying to help. I don't find it difficult to read at all when he posts those full info. Not everyone reads all threads to see it.
 

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Hey, thanks.

@JasonB,

Besides proving that you could be a bit more familiar with braking systems, WHAT did you do with your car's brakes??
 

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Dreaming of Lotus
2005 Elise Sport Touring
Joined
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163 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
For what little say I have, Why are we being so unfriendly right now? It's not like the forums are moving super fast and spam in number of threads of large posts is very offensive.

@glb you best believe that it was your posts that I was reading when I was figuring out whether I was more rev300 or 400 ?
 
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