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Discussion Starter #1
So I am getting older 58 and have been doing loti for 40 years, 7s,8,11,23,26, cortinas that type of thing--and that does not count the Allards. Astons, Bentleys, TVRs or MGs,

I just don't get the Elise-my 91BRG Miatas are less cage like than a 111 and when you want a thrill-1200 pounds of 7-rocketed by 250hp of Cosworth-well that tunnel vision thing is a 6-8500rpm reality. 111s are neat small cars-but heavy--I wish I could "get into" them--I built the 23 as a street legal car when I was lusting after the unavailable in the US Elise--and went back to an ultimate 7-my 4th and last.

When the newbies ask silly questions about 111s take it easy on them. Its good s-x, but not great.

F=MA.

Kevin Kearney
Aboard my 7mph trawler in New York, car sick.:coolnana::coolnana::coolnana::coolnana:
 

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So I am getting older 58 and have been doing loti for 40 years, 7s,8,11,23,26, cortinas that type of thing--and that does not count the Allards. Astons, Bentleys, TVRs or MGs,

I just don't get the Elise-my 91BRG Miatas are less cage like than a 111 and when you want a thrill-1200 pounds of 7-rocketed by 250hp of Cosworth-well that tunnel vision thing is a 6-8500rpm reality. 111s are neat small cars-but heavy--I wish I could "get into" them--I built the 23 as a street legal car when I was lusting after the unavailable in the US Elise--and went back to an ultimate 7-my 4th and last.

When the newbies ask silly questions about 111s take it easy on them. Its good s-x, but not great.

F=MA.

Kevin Kearney
Aboard my 7mph trawler in New York, car sick.:coolnana::coolnana::coolnana::coolnana:
I can't comment on the Lotus 7 angle, never driven one as I don't fit, the pedal box is very narrow and pushing the brake meant pushing the other two pedals at the same time - plus my head was above the roll bar and I could touch my elbow off the road with a slight stretch... light but barely any car there!
For me there is such a thing as too fast - the Toniq (Lts7 Clone) in this video shouldn't be allowed on the road: :no:
YouTube - Toniq R Duratec Out To Play

Why do the folks here love the 111 with such passion?
For me the Elise is a perfect compromise between handling/weight/speed
The thrills come at speeds which won't automatically land you in prison and it makes a pretty good fist at being a 'proper car' that can be used regularly.
Plus the handling creates a vatic connection between the driver and machine that is inspirational. True - it's hard to enter and exit.
IF you gave 100 people the choice of a Miata or an Elise after back to back test drives 99 would choose the Elise (figures are from the top of my head :D)
It's quite beautiful too.
Are those enough reasons?
and taking it easy on newcomers - THIS IS SPARTA.
 

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I have to say, I love my Elise for it's unique look, absolutely amazing handling, incredible acceleration, and relative ease of maintenance, care, etc. Of all the cars I have owned, it is by far the quickest, but also one of the most unique. It is not a 7, or a Caterham. But, it is a great compromise in terms of performance vs. Function. And it blows a stock Miata away in a heart beat.
 

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For me there is such a thing as too fast - the Toniq (Lts7 Clone) in this video shouldn't be allowed on the road: :no:
:confused:

That car doesn't look too fast for the road to me, the roads are just wet and in a really light car it is easy to break loose in those conditions
 

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Daily Driven

I love my 7 but can't really consider it a daily driver. My Elise is a daily driver, as like most commuters, it's only me and a briefcase on the road. They're different cars, both lots of fun.
 

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:confused:

That car doesn't look too fast for the road to me, the roads are just wet and in a really light car it is easy to break loose in those conditions
I lost count of the near death experiences the guy driving that Toniq had. The first one was just 4 seconds after pulling on to the road - the very worst was at 58 sec. when he almost wiped out into an oncoming. the video was just 2 minutes long and those were just the bits he could show.

Some people need to throw themslves off low buildings and bridges with partachutes to get their kicks and some people like to almost die to feel alive - for those folks there are Lotus 7s or superbikes, for the rest of us there are slightly less dangerous 111s, that's all I'm saying, not really calling for them to be banned.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
These are all very reasoned responses. I used to cruise in sailboats the last one was 36000 pounds 4 bedrooms, 2 baths and a fireplace=kinda ruined the feeling of motion-when I want to sail-I like a fast light cat-a laser-why haul all that other stuff about its like dancing with a fat lady.

Most cars are compromises, The 111 is as well-so I get a bit concerned when some responders on this list treat the 111 as some sort of zenith of "sportscarness"
Windows, doors, paint, heaters, air conditioners, all detract.

As Lotus got older the cars got "older as well"-cars with compromise.

Kevin Kearney-Cabin John Maryland
1966 7, DSK race frame, Cosworth YBM, Thrills
1991 Miata, beater
1998 BMW 318ti-Dog Car
2002 MZ 660 dumb bike
1982 Honda step thru-Yacht bike
1966 Steel trawler 45ft. life afloat
NO STAR SHIELD
 

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Like MNlotus above I gave into the temptation and had both. But, sold the Elise, but I can't fault the Elise at all. I just liked autocrossing and tracking the 7 more and both were just toys, so I didn't need to worry about commuting or other street driving.
I will say in terms of driving experience, pure driving experience the 7 is it, no gizmos, no power steering (hell no power nothing), no electronic nannies, just pure driving.
 

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I lost count of the near death experiences the guy driving that Toniq had. The first one was just 4 seconds after pulling on to the road - the very worst was at 58 sec. when he almost wiped out into an oncoming. the video was just 2 minutes long and those were just the bits he could show.
While I agree that there is such a thing as too fast for the road, my point was that you can't conclude how fast that car is from the video you posted. The roads were WET and in a light car like a Seven (especially with A048's) you could get it loose with merely 150hp (or less) in those conditions. My Seven is similar spec to that Toniq and I can tell you he is barely getting on it in the video (albeit he is driving like an ass and that is the real issue), it takes nothing to get it sideways in the wet.

That said, I think cars like the GT-R, ZR-1, etc are far more dangerous than a really fast Seven. In cars like a Seven, it is so visceral and you are so plugged in to the experience that it feels like you are going faster than you really are, so despite the rabid acceleration you tend to go slower than you would in an isolated, over competent car like the aforementioned. ;)


...that's all I'm saying, not really calling for them to be banned.
Well you did say "the Toniq (Lts7 Clone) in this video shouldn't be allowed on the road" :shrug:
 

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These are all very reasoned responses. I used to cruise in sailboats the last one was 36000 pounds 4 bedrooms, 2 baths and a fireplace=kinda ruined the feeling of motion-when I want to sail-I like a fast light cat-a laser-why haul all that other stuff about its like dancing with a fat lady.

Most cars are compromises, The 111 is as well-so I get a bit concerned when some responders on this list treat the 111 as some sort of zenith of "sportscarness"
Windows, doors, paint, heaters, air conditioners, all detract.

If you think the Seven is so much better than the 111, why were looking to trade it for one? http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/7-111-a-53102/ -poke-


I agree that many here think that the 111 is the Zenith of "sportscarness", perhaps ignorance is bliss, but to be fair, the Seven makes HUGE compromises too.

As Lotus got older the cars got "older as well"-cars with compromise.
Not really true, Lotus has recently made un-compromised (to driving) cars too, such as the 211 and the 340R, both of which could be considered modern day Sevens.
One could argue that the cars now are "younger in spirit" than they were during the end of Chapmans years at the helm, he was actually taking the company into a more luxury market


.
 

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I lost count of the near death experiences the guy driving that Toniq had.
Seriously? Have you never got any car a little bit sideways in the wet? To me it looked like he was barely getting just a little bit loose. I never saw a rotation angle greater than about ten degrees or so. It looked completely under control.

xtn
 

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Modern Lotus 7 clone > 111R

I wish I would have gotten one instead, but then again I discovered motorcycles. :)
 

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I just don't get the Elise
Kevin Kearney
Aboard my 7mph trawler in New York, car sick.:coolnana::coolnana::coolnana::coolnana:
I think you nailed it right there.
 

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have been doing loti for 40 years, 7s,8,11,23,26, cortinas that type of thing
So, just to be clear, you owned or drove 1 of the 9 total Lotus Mk VIII that were ever built, of which only 6 still remain? Wow, that's just fantastic. How was it? Which car did you own/drive? Was it one of the European cars, James Dean's car (did you know John Timanus?), or Dan Margulies' car?

To help jog your memory of which car it was, here's a list:

No1 Prototype 3 (SAR5): living in UK
No2 TYC700: living in Holland
No3 624BMG: Scrapped in '72
No4 867BMX: living in USA
No5 HUD139: living in UK
No6 KJA91: living in UK
No7 777FRE: living in UK
No8 SXB500: Scrapped in '67
No9: Scrapped in '80/81
 

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Seriously? Have you never got any car a little bit sideways in the wet? To me it looked like he was barely getting just a little bit loose. I never saw a rotation angle greater than about ten degrees or so. It looked completely under control.

xtn
IMHO At 58 sec he was only a slight oil spillage on the road away from wiping out the family in the oncoming car...
I love 'spirited' driving and occasional powerslides but for me that was insane;
A visit to those hedgerows at those speeds, in that car, would result in certain death.
If every press of the loud pedal results in spinning the wheels in every gear then for me it's a car that's much better suited to the track.

Anyway the argument of the original post was the seven was as good a solution for keen drivers as the 111 - my argument is that they answer VERY different questions.

(I'm think I'm starting to lust after a Toniq though!)
 

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I think I would like a 340R unfortunately the are "track only". Maybe the level of grip is too high to enjoy on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
7 4 111 and mk8

That was a moment of getting older which I grew past-kinda wanted to slim down the stable by combining the miatas and the seven into a 111--gagged soon thereafter-compromises suck. Wanted a slower car with air con-the type of thing older folks need/want.


Relative to the Mk 8--There seem to be several -the one I had was an SAR5 with disputed green book--not the triagulated engine bay like the first car, Split front axel and a mk 9 tail a TR2 hot engine--bit of a lash up in the late 1970s bought it for $1000 sold it in 1988 for $8000.

Its not that I won't grow up, I can't.
 

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I think I would like a 340R unfortunately the are "track only". Maybe the level of grip is too high to enjoy on the street.
They are road registerable outside the US - the reason they are track only in NA is that they are based on the S1 and use the rover engine.
 

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Relative to the Mk 8--There seem to be several -the one I had was an SAR5 with disputed green book--not the triagulated engine bay like the first car, Split front axel and a mk 9 tail a TR2 hot engine--bit of a lash up in the late 1970s bought it for $1000 sold it in 1988 for $8000.
You do know that "SAR5" is the UK road registration number, right? And you do know that "SAR5" was the first of the Mk VIII built, right? So it appears that you are saying that either you owned a clone of SAR5 or the one that Bill Vincent currently owns is not the real SAR5 :shrug:. Please clarify that for me. With the disputed green book it appears that it would be the former, not the latter, but I'll await further details from you. TIA.
 
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