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Discussion Starter #1
Just saw it on Komo-tec.net!!!




Price: 799 euros!

The dyno-run below shows a top gain of approx. 10HP!!!

They also supply the manifold with a sport catalytic converter : +649 euros.

My only concern for the manifold is that the original oneis covered by two protection sheets, and I wonder if Komo-tec's manifold can also be covered with some stuff like that, because I would like to put my back clam on flames :D :D.

But actually, who can tell me if my worries valid or not?
 

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Awesome looking system!! I wonder how it compares with the Yoshimura system Tony has in Japan? ( See post on KMS system) For more money, you could have it ceramic coated for additional insulative function.
 

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>>>The dyno-run below shows a top gain of approx. 10HP!!! <<<

That's about what the various Celica headers can do. The cheap ones run about 260 and the midrange offerings are in the sub 1,000 range with some fancier ones going for more. A few that are stock shaped have provision for the heat shields. Some of the headers are coated, or you can have them coated to help with the heat factor should they be run without the shield and the Elise run hard.


Some Celica GT-S Headers..
 

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pretty nice! how much does it weigh? Do the pipes stick out? I really like the hidden tips of the stage 2.
 

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Looks like a 4 to 1 header, with the gains happening higher in the rpm range consistent with that.
 

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My attempt at a translation of their description:

To help the Toyota powered Elise, we have developed a manifold and sport catalytic converter system.

The manifold is a 4:1 stainless steel manifold with tuned [matched?] pipe lengths. The goal was to achieve an improved torque curve mainly in the "non V-Tec" region, and some more performance at the top. Both goals were met. In combination with the sport catalytic converter, you have a perfect package.

To still maintain the option of using the standard cat, we connected the manifold and the cat with a flange (stock is pipe and cat as one piece). To make this possible, it is necessary to modify the standard cat, which we will do in an exchange [?].

The improvement in torque and performance can be seen in the following power diagram:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Isn't the statement conflicting with the torque diagram? They say that they want to improve non-"TLi" torque , and the diagram shows the torque to be basically improved only during TLi operation.

Am I blind or am I missing something on the graph? :rolleyes: :)
 

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theob said:
Am I blind or am I missing something on the graph? :rolleyes: :)
No, I thought the same thing when I compared text and dyno plot. The way I see it, the torque curve of the modified car starts to pull ahead around 5000-5500rpm. So I guess there is an improvement before the high cam kicks in, but not by a lot, and the improvement is small. The big gain is on the second cam.
 

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While I think that it is nice that any company develops any parts, this is a lot of money without any more torque, where it is really needed. I think that with a new intake and exhaust manifold, efficient exhaust, throttle body and air intake, there might be 25 wheel hp on the table, but it will only be on top, possibly even reducing torque. Since Toyota has nto released teh blanks and new cams are impossible to make at this points, FI might be the only way to get another 30-60 lb ft down low, where we really need it.

Nice piece though, I wonder waht a 4 into 1 and a tri-Y manifold would look like ona dyno overlaid on each other.
 

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If you look again at the pictures posted from Greece you will see that there is not enough space available to provide a proper 4: 2:1 exhaust manifold as needed to flatten that torque valley in between 5000 and 6000 RPM.

This engine like the Honda K 20 A has exhaust valves on the other side. Therefore it is not feasible to design such a beautiful header as Tony is showing us above. At least the first 4 pipes have to be as long as Celica –Tuners have made them. Somebody knows it in inches or mm ?
You saw Joe `s manifold designed for the Honda conversion? A good demonstration how you can do it nevertheless.
 

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Ruediger said:
If you look again at the pictures posted from Greece you will see that there is not enough space available to provide a proper 4: 2:1 exhaust manifold as needed to flatten that torque valley in between 5000 and 6000 RPM.

This engine like the Honda K 20 A has exhaust valves on the other side. Therefore it is not feasible to design such a beautiful header as Tony is showing us above. At least the first 4 pipes have to be as long as Celica –Tuners have made them. Somebody knows it in inches or mm ?
You saw Joe `s manifold designed for the Honda conversion? A good demonstration how you can do it nevertheless.
You are right of course, and even if there was room, it might be constrictive. At the risk of sounding redundent, FI is the way to go.

Although I have seen as much as 15 lb-ft picked up on a standalone and NA at 3000 rpm on 91 octane. If I remember it was a link to a Vishnu project Celica car, but I don't know how much of that slack Lotus has picked up from their ECU. I would assume that there is still some room there. I think the best way to increase torque is with timing and A/F mixtures. Exhausts just won't help in that area. Too Bad. :(
 

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Beg to differ on Mean TT's observation that exhausts won't help on the lack of torque. Most of the examples on Stan's link show a basic "copy" of the original manufacturers design, ie short + fat headers - a disaster for torque!
A "torque" design would step down from the port diameter (carefully - no step ridge), from say 41mm to 35mm then come back up to 41mm further down the 600mm long header. Plus, I would use the "boost bottles" seen on Yoshi Superbike headers - they work.
But finding a manufacturer to do all of the above, well ..............
 

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>>>Beg to differ on Mean TT's observation that exhausts won't help on the lack of torque. Most of the examples on Stan's link show a basic "copy" of the original manufacturers design, ie short + fat headers - a disaster for torque! <<<

The stock factory header is just a normal Celica GT-S header it appears. You can't see much of it since it is encased in heat shield sheet metal though.

Note that the stock header has a bifurcating insert that works in conjunction with the first part of the pipe leading to the catalytic converter. That is, the header is a two piece design essentially and we are looking at only the first piece in those PICs.
 

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Here's is some more info on our headers. They are a compromise for mass production and quick catalytic converter warm up - to cut cold start exhaust emissions.

 

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>>>Stan, your bi-furcated design looks like a patent drawing I saw once - the dividing strip accelerated the warm-up of the exhaust gasses, is that its main function?<<<

Yes that is correct...it is a cheap and dirty way to get the catalytic converter warmed up faster so that emissions can be cut that much more. Even Toyota says that it cuts power output, see their power loss versus aperture graph.

When a modern engine is all warmed up, the actual emissions are quite low. Most of the bad stuff comes out in the first two minutes after a cold start. The difference between a normal and a super low polluting vehicle in the same class occurs during that initial after start period. After that, the differences are slim to none.

If you are a greenie, do your errands in batches, or at least close together in time! That way there is but one warm-up cycle.
 
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