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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
2002 Esprit VIN SCCDC08252HA10415 value.

Results of PPI reveal some minor issues. Bad front shock, worn rear pads, no air filters, needs new tires, and some other small stuff. The compression was 145-155 on all cylinders. Overall the car is in good shape with no prior damage or paint work.

The question is, is the car a fair price at $40k?

TIA.
 

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How many miles? I'd say $40k is in the ball park for a well sorted example, but you need to make absolutely sure that's what you are looking at. Was the mechanic doing the PPI a Lotus specialist?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
no air filter?!?!
Yeah, missing the air filter for the engine. I'm shocked that the dealer who has the car listed didn't realize this when the took the car in on a trade. WTF!! Who knows how much stuff was sucked into the engine. The car was inspected at a Lotus dealer, so I trust the results.

The VIN is SCCDC08252HA10415 and the car is for sale in Boca Raton.
 

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all those items seems to be minor aside from air filter issue why or how long is was missing...

so have you finalize the deal? How was it during test drive? cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
all those items seems to be minor aside from air filter issue why or how long is was missing...

so have you finalize the deal? How was it during test drive? cheers
I am no longer interested in buying it. In S. Florida sand is everywhere. Whenever I change out my air filters there always sand in the bottom of the airbox before it gets to the filter. There is no way this car didn't suck in any sand.

I'm extremely let down, but at the same time the $600 spent was well worth it by avoiding this possible disaster.
 

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how would you rate the cosmetic condition exterior/interior of the car? I may consider taking a look at the car....any good insights or something i should be aware of? i guess for the right price i may consider. thanks!
 

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not sure why a car of this weight and performance would need rear pads at 15k miles either. Ya no air filter would be a deal breaker. Seems like they pop up frequently in florida so just wait a little while, there's also a maroon one i saw someone mentioned was forsale with like 5k miles? Ya i dont feel like that particular car was worth 40k considering all the mentioned and in silver - seems to be somewhat common color. Sucks but you'll find the right one
 

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FWIW, many Morgans left the factory without an engine air filter, due to insufficient space under the bonnet. :huh:

They DID have a single wire over the inlet to the carbs, affectionately known by Morgan owners as the Brick Stopper. rotfl


:UK:


But yeah, if sand and dust is a problem where the car was (FL and AZ come to mind) I'd continue looking...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
how would you rate the cosmetic condition exterior/interior of the car? I may consider taking a look at the car....any good insights or something i should be aware of? i guess for the right price i may consider. thanks!
Cosmetically, it is in great condition. However the previous owner was cheap with the car. The front tires are the original SP9000 and the rears are General tires. Come on!! The oil cooler lines were replaced, but weren't run inside the main tunnel so they are exposed to the road below the car. I've run over a tire tread that came off a truck before and did serious damage my car. Why risk losing the oil if this were to happen again.

And the real deal killer, the owner of the place and the sales person were not willing to compromise to a level where I was comfortable with buying the car. You aren't going to get the car for a "right price". Trust me, I tried and I have the funds ready to purchase.

I started this thread to give people a heads up about this car. There are too many risks to be taken on buying a car that had no air filters which was driven near the beach in Florida. My advice is to stay away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
FWIW, many Morgans left the factory without an engine air filter, due to insufficient space under the bonnet. :huh:

They DID have a single wire over the inlet to the carbs, affectionately known by Morgan owners as the Brick Stopper. rotfl
Yeah, my father restored a concours winning Morgan 30yrs ago. If the car left the factory without an air filter, at least it was warrantied by them. Not the case with Esprit.


But yeah, if sand and dust is a problem where the car was (FL and AZ come to mind) I'd continue looking...
I am and hopefully I'll find the right one that at least has both air filters. :D

Thanks everyone for your advice. Hopefully I'll be an Esprit owner by the end of the month.
 

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It does seem odd that there were no air filters. All by itself that wouldn't bother me so much as it is an indicator of how the car was cared for. If whoever was taking care of the car couldn't get the simple stuff done, what else is wrong with the car? Good catch by the guy inspecting it though! Not something you normally think of checking, it is not easy getting to the filters. With the good compression I would not think the motor suffered much from not having the filters. As for the price, not too bad but you have to figure you are going to be spending at least $1500 for the things found to be fixed. Since you didn't mention it, I am assuming the service work is up to date? Just belts and tensioners can cost about $3K
David Teitelbaum
 

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Cal H
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Rear pads at 15K? It is fairly common for the rear brake to get stuck if not used much by a flat lander or if a person not familiar with the car did not release the parking brake before driving the car. The rear brakes would have been smoking going down the road. But I have seen it done before.

The rear tires wear at 2X the wear as the fronts. I believe there is a FL law that states you are unable to sell a car with bad or worn tires. So the replacement General tires were probably a requirement to offer the car for sale. When I bought a car in FL the owner did have to take it to a tire shop and throw on a pair of rears before he turned it over to me but it was a set of my choice so it was alright. The dealer probably took it in on trade and did not want to spend any money on it hoping to unload it on someone not as attentive as you and stick the new owner with as much of the maintenance items as possible.

Good luck guys in your search

Cal H
 

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It does seem odd that there were no air filters. [snip] With the good compression I would not think the motor suffered much from not having the filters. [snip]
Ah, but who know if the air filters were removed to fix a driveability problem? In other words, if you put the filters back on, it may reveal another mechanical issue.

That alone would be cause for concern. At $40K the market prices I've seen say that's too high for that unknown condition.
 

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Ah, but who know if the air filters were removed to fix a driveability problem? In other words, if you put the filters back on, it may reveal another mechanical issue.

That alone would be cause for concern. At $40K the market prices I've seen say that's too high for that unknown condition.
My guess is they were removed to try to get a couple of more HP. An old Hot-Rodder's trick. On the old V-8 American Muscle the favorite trick was to take the cover for the air cleaner off, turn it over and reattach it, bypassing the air filter. $40K is the asking price. If the buyer is still interested, having spent for the PPI, he could use it to negotiate and maybe settle on a better price. Or not. Would he be interested if the price was $35K? To settle the issue about the air filters would not take much or take your chances and get the better price? With those compression #'s at least the motor is OK.
David Teitelbaum
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My guess is they were removed to try to get a couple of more HP. An old Hot-Rodder's trick. On the old V-8 American Muscle the favorite trick was to take the cover for the air cleaner off, turn it over and reattach it, bypassing the air filter. $40K is the asking price. If the buyer is still interested, having spent for the PPI, he could use it to negotiate and maybe settle on a better price. Or not. Would he be interested if the price was $35K? To settle the issue about the air filters would not take much or take your chances and get the better price? With those compression #'s at least the motor is OK.
David Teitelbaum
Thank you for your insight. The dealer was not willing to negotiate anywhere near my offer. Even though the compression numbers were WNL, how are they going to be in 15k miles. Unless I take a scope and look at the cylinder walls it is not worth the risk. Not even if I could get it for $35k which is what I offered. I'd rather not give this dealership my business based on how they spoke to me, and I'd recommend anyone else to stay away from them.
 

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They'll probably pop a couple filters in it, maybe brake pads, and bump the price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well yeah they, will after all he paid for the inspection now all the dealer has to do is replace the items at issue and claim all maintenance is current
But if someone does a VIN search, hopefully they'll see this thread and not buy the car. I wanted to make the information public to help other members here who may have been interested in this car a little more educated about it. I always like to make useful contributions whenever I can .

Without both air filters on the car, there had to be some [email protected] sucked into the turbo's and intake. It may never cause a problem, but if it does wouldn't you be pissed that the car got an a.o.k. from an inspection.

It's always "Buyer Beware."

-Cheers
 

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I think you are over-reacting to the missing air filters. If there is (or was) any problem caused by not having them it would show up in the compression #'s and you would see it now, not later (a borescope inspection won't tell you any more than you already know). The other thing is the actual negotiation. If you cannot agree on a price then you have to walk. If the car doesn't sell maybe you can go back and try again. Maybe next month the dealer may be more flexible on the price. Then again he may have it on consignment and he just doesn't have a lot of room to negotiate. Maybe you can "sell" the dealer the PPI? $35K may be asking the dealer to go too low. If he can resolve the issues maybe there is still a way to negotiate the price or at least lower it enough for you to do it. If you liked the car enough to spend for the PPI and there was nothing found that is a deal-breaker, don't give up so easily. As you may already know, there are not all that many Lotus's for sale at any particular time. And usually not the color you would prefer. As for not liking the dealer, you are not marrying him, only buying a car from him which you have already had inspected so you don't even have to trust him. Another thing going for this car is that it is local to you. If you found your perfect car in New York it would cost you another $1500 to get it home! Use that in your calculations. Now we are up to $36.5K
David Teitelbaum
 
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