[dmh]

Why are the speeds so slow and rpm so low?
What track are you testing on?

 

[dmh]

Just curious...What is the point of testing on a public road when tracks are available for testing? Other than drivability and all-weather capability what can you test?

 

[dmh]

NYC--Where else in the country do you have access to more tracks within an 8-hour radius than we do? Hell, Englishtown is $350 for the day!
Who cares what an intercooler does on the street as there are laws to abide by. It is only about racing on a closed course of some sort that matters.
(Lightning, Thunderbolt, Englishtown, Pocono, Monticello, Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Summit Point, VIR, Mid Ohio, Nelson Ledges, Mosport, Mt. Tremblant, Calabogie, Shannonville, New Hampshire, Beaver Run,...did I miss any?)

 

[dmh]

i tested on amongst other places, baker grade in the desert with ambient temperatures over 110F, its at least 15 miles long and a fairly steep uphill, i don't think there any tracks like that around here

...or here! But it still will not replicate the track. That is why race teams test on a track.
I am still lost on the entire street thing. So I best let it go.

 

[dmh]

I'm not suggesting DEs. Private testing is available at most all tracks. There are more than a few groups that are for just "tune & test".

Beside...who drives a Lotus on the street? :shrug:

 

[dmh]

Wag -- very fuuny.

For the others who don't know I'm messing around -- I am. Relax. Have fun playing with your data. :up:

Racers don't share information!

 

[dmh]

FYI if you are planning on racing...
there are no road racing organizations and/or sactioning bodies that I have ever heard of that allows anything like intercooler sprayers. If the rules don't say you can do something, you can't.

 

[dmh]

Just curious...What group allows a car that sprays water on the intercooler on a track with other cars?

 

[dmh]

Just having fun with you...

Speed World Challenge:
2.9.3.16.5: Water Spray Systems
Water may not be sprayed on any intercoolers, radiators, etc. Water spray systems may only be used to inject water into the brake ducts. See the brake section of Article 2.9.9.5 for additional details.

Koni Challenge:
No intercooler spraying is allowed.
7-2.4 Fluid or fan cooling of the brakes is prohibited.

Rolex GT:
Is forced induction even allowed? Water brake cooling is not.

In all forms of racing, at all levels, if the rules don't say you can do something, you can't.

Not to mention...NASA and just about any other form of racing...15.17.10 Engine Coolant
Ethylene Glycol-based antifreeze and other additives that may cause a slippery condition if spilled on track are prohibited. Other water additives such as Redline Water Wetter may be used.

 

[dmh]

dmh, what is your issue dude? It passed tech and I just got my log book signed off (yes one that is accepted by SCCA). You didn't answer my question, how is it any more a safety issue than any other failure in a car??

Like any system, if it is done right, it's not a safety issue. So what's next, prevent the use of synthetic oils because they don't dissipate and absorb as well as standard oils?

On the street I don't care if you spray or not but as a LCS sponsor who would like to see the series expand east I have an interest in not reading about rules violations and/or "rule creep" rationalizing. Hey, this is not personal at all -- I'm just trying to head you off at the pass in a friendly way.

Our shop performs national tech inspections for a few sanctioning bodies and we see safety mistakes quite often. Do you think because it was passed by some an SCCA safety scrutineer that it is legal and/or safe? :shrug:
SCCA: Water Spray Systems
"Water may not be sprayed on any intercoolers, radiators, etc. Water spray systems may only be used to inject water into the brake ducts."

The reason intercooler spraying has been prohibited by every road racing sanctioning body that I am aware of is to protect others on track. It's not necessarily about a failure but rather knowingly leaking/squirting/dribbling fluid in your engine bay. (All other fluids are contained.)
Just ask yourself this question: Would you like it if you were rounding a bend and some guy with an intercooler spray system somehow got water on his tires which lead him to crash into you?

 

[dmh]

You can play the "what if" game til nobody shows up to a race -- is that what you want?

Which is more dangerous a failure in a poorly installed Accusump that dumbs oil on the track, or a failure in water spray system that dumps water on the track?

If I were to follow your logic of making everything a safety issue, then we really should NOT be racing period. If these are the LCS rules for racing, then count me out.

This sounds more like an issue of not wanting to deal with such a system so lets ban it. Or worse yet, someone (aka a series sponsor) is selling a "more safe" approach to reducing IAT but it'll cost you $4000 vs. $400. Cause then we get a new sponsor who can sell there $4000 system.

I know the deal, this is not new news to me, if that's how you want to play, then go for it.

P.S. For the record, my original Water spray system that failed was installed by an LCS Series sponsor, you got issues, then take it to them.

I don't know what you mean when you say no one will show up to race. There is no intercooler spraying allowed anywhere and yet the tracks are full.

This is not about a failure of the engine lubrication system but rather intercooler water spray systems. Read what Smoky wrote.

The object is not to outlaw racing because it is dangerous but rather to limit the danger (to you and others) with sound, well intentioned rules.

This is not about banning intercooler water spray systems as they have been banned for a very, very long time. How can that not be clear? Is the safety of others lost on you? (What you are arguing for is to allow them in.) Nor is this about any LCS sponsor, their workmanship, or products.

 

[dmh]

Lee-
I haven't ruled it out and ought to contact them again. The Mini Cooper S in Koni ST runs a dual air & water setup from Pace. Yet, I just keep thinking: if you are going to use water why not just make the entire setup for water? I have a heat exchanger already done that is capable of cooling for our needs.
Don

 

[dmh]

235* F pre-intercooler, not even on the track. You'll see about 55*F more at speed!
IAT around 160*F. Yup.
The intercooler taking out 110*F.
Didn't someone already give these figures? :wave:

(There are gauges that track pre and post i/c temps!)

I've got an rls intercooler for sale in the parts market forum -- about 30% off list!

 

[dmh]

Three minutes is a walk in the park. Just ask the Mini Cooper or Cobalt Koni ST racers/owners about heat soak.

What I was getting at was I have more than enough data about intercooler temps. :wave:

 

[dmh]

No such thing as too much data.

Not as long as it is valid.
But what is being done here has already been done by neumerous people numerous times. What information do you think is missing or needs to be answered?

 

[dmh]

Hi Guys, there is some data over here that you might find relevant to this thread.

Just as the Brits led me to believe! Go figure. :shrug:
Most importantly, who won the race?

I take it water spraying the intercooler is allowed by the rules?

 

[dmh]

So...has anybody flowed the stock or rls intercooler at 28"?

 

[dmh]

I assume you mean 28" of mercury? About 14 psi? (Atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi at sea level.)

Wouldn't it make more sense to flow test the intercooler at 6 psig (about 20.7 psi), which is where it will be "working" while in service?

Any non biased parties have access to a flow bench? I'll provide one Lotus Exige S intercooler and one rls Intercooler (both to be returned) for testing.

No, water.
No, industry standard of 28; if not then 10".
I'm gathering the numbers as it seems Bell was not asked to flow the intercooler but rather just build it. :shrug:

 

[dmh]

well mag you should get some money from RLS for the intercoolers you helped sell

:huh: Then somebody buy mine. It's been for sale while a while in the parts forum.anic: