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Cyberdyne Model 101
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347 Posts
Thomas also sells a methanol injection kit on his site...I've considered it but don't feel like constantly refilling my washer fluid.
 

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Dog Pilot
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75 Posts
IMHO no. The next step would be an air/water setup with the IC up front.

San
I actually like the big honkin' air IC in the back, if I can find a polycarb engine cover so you can show off the engine. It looks mean, even if it's not the most efficient.

I stopped in at Phils shop today and discussed the air/water setup... certainly doable, but it changes the whole visual nature of the engine bay on an SC Exige... not necessarily for the worse/it's not a bad thing, just different. The BOE SC's sure look nice, too.
 

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** The Enforcer **
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I actually like the big honkin' air IC in the back, if I can find a polycarb engine cover so you can show off the engine. It looks mean, even if it's not the most efficient.

I stopped in at Phils shop today and discussed the air/water setup... certainly doable, but it changes the whole visual nature of the engine bay on an SC Exige... not necessarily for the worse/it's not a bad thing, just different. The BOE SC's sure look nice, too.
The big honking' IC sits up high where you don't want weight.

The polycarb engine cover is just going to add weight (at least for me). Would probably just tempt those that saw what was under the rear hatch.

I was advocating doing the air/water IC setup with the stock MP62 and a tune, not the TVS SC. I currently don't have that kind of cash (unless I sell something).

San
 

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Premium Member
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4,135 Posts
Honestly im thinking im at the end of the road for bolt on HP. Just getting a new engine may be next.
 

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Okay guys, bumping this thread as I do believe I have a DIY solution which may be slightly better than previous solutions (without going to a air to water system or misting system)

Now I have done a bunch of research on this as I am about to buy an exige s.

This is what I have found so far;
Going to a aftermarket intercooler(air to air) makes little if no difference, as recovery time has been shown to be critical.
The 2-eleven shroud deleting the scoop, is the best option
The roof scoop does very little
Volume of air increase has the biggest benefits

Now the 2-eleven uses two 4inch (100mm) ducts, one going to each side scoop, this give an area of 15707mm2

Now if I use 4 × 3inch (76mm) two going to each side scoop my area increases by 15%. Eg: 18145.84mm2.

Now to achieve this, I will mount two inlets on each side of the Intercooler by using this flat mounted dual duct (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3629 ) and mounting them onto a flat piece of aluminium (with the back cut away to match the duct) and then fit it to a shallow fabricated aluminum box on the front of the intercooler, replacing the existing shroud, as per the 2-eleven design.

This would also direct the air smoothly onto the intercooler. Then two pipes can be mounted into the side scoops each side.

My only concern is fitting the two pipes down the side of the car to the side scoops, but from pictures I believe they will fit.

When I start the mod I will post pictures. This will probably be april/ june.

:)

Any comments/ suggestions are welcome?
 

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Well, aftermarket intercooler might actually help.
Given that experiment, I hope the better IC has lower heatsoak point and brings the IAT to under 70c.
I have some reservation about that experiment, though. The hairdryer wasn't as hot as I hoped, no inlet temperature, and maybe there should have been a fan blowing through them. And measure with/without the fan. It does indicate that the aftermarket one cools better, though. Whether it's purely due to higher thermal mass, I'm not so sure, since higher thermal mass means it'll take longer to heatsoak, but it'll also remain at that temperature for longer too cool down as well.

If the hair dryer does indeed pump out 190F(87.8C), resulting heatsoaked temperatures 125F(51.7C) and 158(70C) show clear difference.
I've personally seen IAT reach 210F(99C) with the stock setup and float around 90C at a hot track day. Leaves a lot to be desired...

On a related note, I'll be running supplemental air duct to the IC as well soon.
 

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He's on fire!
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3,540 Posts
Considerations

- what is the cross sectional area where the air comes in at the scoop? If its less than what you've already measured you won't be getting the amount of airflow you think you are

- it is believed that the air coming in is also part of engine cooling, stealing enough of it to the intercooler may have an effect on engine temps?

- air coming through the scoop definitely feeds the air intake

- you'll need a shape other than 3" circle if you want to mount even one 3" tube near the face of the intake scoop (unless converting to wide scoop)

Whatever you do, don't just post pics show some data!

Okay guys, bumping this thread as I do believe I have a DIY solution which may be slightly better than previous solutions (without going to a air to water system or misting system)

Now I have done a bunch of research on this as I am about to buy an exige s.

This is what I have found so far;
Going to a aftermarket intercooler(air to air) makes little if no difference, as recovery time has been shown to be critical.
The 2-eleven shroud deleting the scoop, is the best option
The roof scoop does very little
Volume of air increase has the biggest benefits

Now the 2-eleven uses two 4inch (100mm) ducts, one going to each side scoop, this give an area of 15707mm2

Now if I use 4 × 3inch (76mm) two going to each side scoop my area increases by 15%. Eg: 18145.84mm2.

Now to achieve this, I will mount two inlets on each side of the Intercooler by using this flat mounted dual duct (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3629 ) and mounting them onto a flat piece of aluminium (with the back cut away to match the duct) and then fit it to a shallow fabricated aluminum box on the front of the intercooler, replacing the existing shroud, as per the 2-eleven design.

This would also direct the air smoothly onto the intercooler. Then two pipes can be mounted into the side scoops each side.

My only concern is fitting the two pipes down the side of the car to the side scoops, but from pictures I believe they will fit.

When I start the mod I will post pictures. This will probably be april/ june.

:)

Any comments/ suggestions are welcome?
 

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297 Posts
Considerations

- what is the cross sectional area where the air comes in at the scoop? If its less than what you've already measured you won't be getting the amount of airflow you think you are

- it is believed that the air coming in is also part of engine cooling, stealing enough of it to the intercooler may have an effect on engine temps?

- air coming through the scoop definitely feeds the air intake

- you'll need a shape other than 3" circle if you want to mount even one 3" tube near the face of the intake scoop (unless converting to wide scoop)

Whatever you do, don't just post pics show some data!
If you search the internet, selco and exige.com, all the testing and data has been done;

They swaped out 4 different ICs and changed out the different shrouds and pipes using the same track and same driver.

The 2-eleven shroud with the standard IC gave the best results, I am only suggesting improving on the 2-eleven design by increasing the volume of air.

If you want to stick with the standard setup or go to the gold standard air to water, that is your choice. I am only offering a variation to the best air to air solution shown to date.

Stealing air from the side scoops has been shown to have little impact.

PS, earlier in this thread, it has been shown the roof scoops provides peanuts as volume of air goes. Do your own calculations. The 4inch 2-eleven provides considerably more volume of air than the triple mod of 2x 63mm pipe + the roof scoop.

Link to the study done in the UK; http://www.exiges.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15396&hilit=intercooler+exige

http://forums.seloc.org/viewthread.php?tid=368103&page=1
 

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Well, aftermarket intercooler might actually help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htGndR7-1Ic
Given that experiment, I hope the better IC has lower heatsoak point and brings the IAT to under 70c.
I have some reservation about that experiment, though. The hairdryer wasn't as hot as I hoped, no inlet temperature, and maybe there should have been a fan blowing through them. And measure with/without the fan. It does indicate that the aftermarket one cools better, though. Whether it's purely due to higher thermal mass, I'm not so sure, since higher thermal mass means it'll take longer to heatsoak, but it'll also remain at that temperature for longer too cool down as well.

If the hair dryer does indeed pump out 190F(87.8C), resulting heatsoaked temperatures 125F(51.7C) and 158(70C) show clear difference.
I've personally seen IAT reach 210F(99C) with the stock setup and float around 90C at a hot track day. Leaves a lot to be desired...

On a related note, I'll be running supplemental air duct to the IC as well soon.
It was found that some of the aftermaket intercoolers didn't recover as quick as the stock one. This is critical as when the intercooler temps spike recovery is crucial. This actually amazed the testers so they repeated the run again with the stock unit and got the same results. I have linked the threads for your reading in the last post.

Enjoyable reading, the guys really did a good comparision. :)
 

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He's on fire!
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3,540 Posts
I've seen that experiment a long time ago.

I'm not sure you're understanding my first point (or maybe i'm not understanding your proposed implementation). The scoops on the side only let so much air in... if your ducts have a larger capacity than the total amount of air coming in the scoops, what you have planned is too much. I know people have run 3" ducts with success, but you're talking about twice that much- at some point you're siphoning off enough air to affect the other things getting air back their does. If you have enough data before/after, you will have a much better idea if you are unintentionally affecting other things.

If you search the internet, selco and exige.com, all the testing and data has been done;

They swaped out 4 different ICs and changed out the different shrouds and pipes using the same track and same driver.

The 2-eleven shroud with the standard IC gave the best results, I am only suggesting improving on the 2-eleven design by increasing the volume of air.

If you want to stick with the standard setup or go to the gold standard air to water, that is your choice. I am only offering a variation to the best air to air solution shown to date.

Stealing air from the side scoops has been shown to have little impact.

PS, earlier in this thread, it has been shown the roof scoops provides peanuts as volume of air goes. Do your own calculations. The 4inch 2-eleven provides considerably more volume of air than the triple mod of 2x 63mm pipe + the roof scoop.

Link to the study done in the UK; Exiges.com ? More Intercooler testing

SELOC Forums
 

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I'm haven't been following this... but, larger ducts have a little less turbulent loss than smaller ones (so cross sectional area comparison isn't the full story).

Bigger scoops also are a little better at grabbing airflow than you might expect, give a cross-sectional comparison... that's because the airflow around the car is turbulent and a bigger scoop will tend to grab more air on average than their cross sectional size would indicate versus a smaller scoop.

Maybe this has nothing to do with the present discussion, I only read the last post.
 

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These are good points and may make a difference I really don't know.

All I can tell is that larger volume piping (or more volume ) of air apppears to work better at maintianing IC temps.

The scoops I intend to widen and remove the mesh (fit front ducting). Frank (tag name Ronin)) says mesh blocks alot of air so that will be gone.

So will be addressing both your comments to some degree.

This mod is only pinching 15%:more than the 2-eleven mod which has been done before a number of times with no ill effects.

Anyway I will be giving it a try.

:)

Something else which may also help, is the air ducted to the intercooler will go through the intercooler out then up through the boot lid. This will draw more air from below in the engine bay due to a syphon effect, also the air from the roof scoop is still entering the engine bay.
There is also ducts underneath the engine. I don't believe anyone has done tests to prove this that I know , but from theory (can't remember the name off hand for this effect) a low pressure should be developed at the top of the engine to draw air up. Will see.
 

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well..To me, I didn't' even have to finish watching video to know the result. :shrug: Yes of course the RLS will be better in this experiment. It has a larger thermal mass. It doesn't reflect real life because it doesn't include any flow though the heat exchanger. The rate of heat transfer "Q" is directly proportional to the mass flow rate of the air though the IC. In this video, the cool air flow rate is zero, so your rate of heat transfer out of the IC "Q" is zero. You can have the biggest IC with the most thermal mass and surface area, after 1 lap you've heat soaked if you don't have any cooling air flowing though it. I really think the biggest improvement for the buck is to increase flow. I'd put a stock IC with big ducts against a big fancy $xxxx intercooler going though the mail slot any day. The most effective part of the RLS kit are the shroud with duct adapters.


Well, aftermarket intercooler might actually help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htGndR7-1Ic
Given that experiment, I hope the better IC has lower heatsoak point and brings the IAT to under 70c.
I have some reservation about that experiment, though. The hairdryer wasn't as hot as I hoped, no inlet temperature, and maybe there should have been a fan blowing through them. And measure with/without the fan. It does indicate that the aftermarket one cools better, though. Whether it's purely due to higher thermal mass, I'm not so sure, since higher thermal mass means it'll take longer to heatsoak, but it'll also remain at that temperature for longer too cool down as well.

If the hair dryer does indeed pump out 190F(87.8C), resulting heatsoaked temperatures 125F(51.7C) and 158(70C) show clear difference.
I've personally seen IAT reach 210F(99C) with the stock setup and float around 90C at a hot track day. Leaves a lot to be desired...

On a related note, I'll be running supplemental air duct to the IC as well soon.
 

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Larger thermal mass is a huge part of the equation. Increased airflow is the other. Either alone will have some benefits, combined is shown to have the best results.
 

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well..To me, I didn't' even have to finish watching video to know the result. :shrug: Yes of course the RLS will be better in this experiment. It has a larger thermal mass. It doesn't reflect real life because it doesn't include any flow though the heat exchanger. The rate of heat transfer "Q" is directly proportional to the mass flow rate of the air though the IC. In this video, the cool air flow rate is zero, so your rate of heat transfer out of the IC "Q" is zero. You can have the biggest IC with the most thermal mass and surface area, after 1 lap you've heat soaked if you don't have any cooling air flowing though it. I really think the biggest improvement for the buck is to increase flow. I'd put a stock IC with big ducts against a big fancy $xxxx intercooler going though the mail slot any day. The most effective part of the RLS kit are the shroud with duct adapters.
I realise a lot of ideas have been put forward and in different situations they may be significant, but with the Exige intercooler design real life experiments show more volume of air lowers exit intercooler temperatures.

Testing has shown Iambatman is on the money with his statement above, ie: why I am trying to get as much air through the intercooler as possible. This applies with any intercooler.

As I said previously the 2-11 shroud has been shown to be the most effective as it supplies more volume of air to the intercooler than the other methods; this is proven. I am only trying to create a design that delivers a bit more.
We can only try and see.
 

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So make a 4" dual inlets to the IC shrould tmr. My drafter will do it tmr :)
So HK, are you suggesting you are going to copy the 2-eleven shroud with two 4inch inlets out of carbon fibre?

Cool! (If so a price would be great, very interested)

If so I think also just a straight fibreglass may also work to make the cost competitive.

Thanks HK, you make some nice stuff, bought some of your gear through Fly ( john) in Australia.

:coolnana:

Cheers
 

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So HK, are you suggesting you are going to copy the 2-eleven shroud with two 4inch inlets out of carbon fibre?

Cool! (If so a price would be great, very interested)

If so I think also just a straight fibreglass may also work to make the cost competitive.

Thanks HK, you make some nice stuff, bought some of your gear through Fly ( john) in Australia.

:coolnana:

Cheers
John T has lots of cars and chicks :up:
 
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