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Those fans look great! They seem like they could work well...especially with a push-pull setup like that. At the very least heat soak should have much less of a bite.

How loud are they, since you do mention that sometimes they are "unwelcome" in terms of noise? Not asking for db specifically, but just your impression of what they add to the overall cabin noise over the usual motor & s/c noise, at idle and at speed..


How do the fans attach to the i/c? I can't quite see what is holding them in place.

Thanks for the great pics and info! I may have to look into this. Looks very doable, and combined with the RLS it may be just enough to really take the bite out of the heat at the track and during city driving.
 

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I used Spal's compact attachment aka long metal rods and clips to attach to I/C.

They aren't loud inside the cabin at all, especially with windows rolled up. Less noise than the stock radiator fans...

Heatsoak seems to be minimized, though not eliminated. More airflow is key, and opening up the intake tract to the fans is the next step.

WW
 
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I'm just really surprised we haven't devised a foolproof, easy-to-install solution to get lots of cold air from the passenger side scoop to this friggin intercooler.

Even if someone makes a new shroud out of fiberglass that has two extra round inlets on that side...

Run some of this...



And one or two of these inline...

 

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tempted to toss on a couple pullers and route my windshield washer reservoir and pump to a spray nozzle in the IC duct.

AJ,

You won't need it for your intended use of the car...with a proper I/C, you'll do fine on track. ;)

I turned my personal best lap time at Big Willow in 105 degree temp in June....beat my previous personal best time by 2 seconds which was set in 60 degree temps back in February. I know...not a very compelling argument. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
I'm just really surprised we haven't devised a foolproof, easy-to-install solution to get lots of cold air from the passenger side scoop to this friggin intercooler.

Even if someone makes a new shroud out of fiberglass that has two extra round inlets on that side...
There's been some concern about blocking/diverting the side scoops in regards to engine bay cooling. A few people have reported lower engine temps after removing the mesh or replacing it with less restrictive mesh. I don't know if anyone has conducted a definitive test that proves this though...

If I could get my OBD-II datalogger to log to a USB drive... I might be able to post some data. But it's not working properly, and without an external drive I only get 30 seconds of data :shrug:

Anyone out there using a datalogging OBD-II reader? What've you got?
 

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AJ,

You won't need it for your intended use of the car...with a proper I/C, you'll do fine on track. ;)

I turned my personal best lap time at Big Willow in 105 degree temp in June....beat my previous personal best time by 2 seconds which was set in 60 degree temps back in February. I know...not a very compelling argument. :D
:D I'll be spinning the blower a bit faster than yours is being spun generating a good bit more heat.we'll see.
 

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Anyone out there using a datalogging OBD-II reader? What've you got?
i can. using innovate's ot1, and a laptop. suggestions on log parameters?

planning to do some testing this weekend. impending doom of late nights is upon me...

again if anyone knows how to convert normal thermo wire into an accurate air temp sensor, this would be greatly appreaciated. I already have 1inch exposed wire soldered but temps are 10C higher than they should be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
i can. using innovate's ot1, and a laptop. suggestions on log parameters?

planning to do some testing this weekend. impending doom of late nights is upon me...

again if anyone knows how to convert normal thermo wire into an accurate air temp sensor, this would be greatly appreaciated. I already have 1inch exposed wire soldered but temps are 10C higher than they should be.
Thanks for the info... I'm going to take a closer look at the OT-1.

As far as the thermo wire goes... are you using innovate's TC-4 to digitize the thermocouple? I'm not an expert on thermocouples, but I guess there are a few things that could cause inaccuracy. Are you saying that when exposed to ambient conditions the thermocouple is giving readings 10C too high?
 

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Thanks for the info... I'm going to take a closer look at the OT-1.

As far as the thermo wire goes... are you using innovate's TC-4 to digitize the thermocouple? I'm not an expert on thermocouples, but I guess there are a few things that could cause inaccuracy. Are you saying that when exposed to ambient conditions the thermocouple is giving readings 10C too high?
yes using the tc4. I ordered a thermocouple sensor kit from innovate and it works perfect so the wrong reading has something to do with the thermo couple wire in question (which was sourced seperately).

yes when exposed to ambient, temps are 10c higher than actual.

as of now, have one end of the wire to the tc4. The other end is about an inch exposed from insulation, twisted and soldered.

My only guess is that the wrong solder was used.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
yes using the tc4. I ordered a thermocouple sensor kit from innovate and it works perfect so the wrong reading has something to do with the thermo couple wire in question (which was sourced seperately).

yes when exposed to ambient, temps are 10c higher than actual.

as of now, have one end of the wire to the tc4. The other end is about an inch exposed from insulation, twisted and soldered.

My only guess is that the wrong solder was used.
This might be too obvious a question, but is the separately sourced thermocouple wire type K (chromel-alumel)? I don't know how much the type of solder matters as long as the two wires are twisted together (i.e. lots of contact area) first. Have you checked the thermo wire's accuracy without soldering (just twisted) as well?
 

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Just a FYI- You can order good quality K-type TCs from mcmaster for not too much money. Some of them are very fast responding as well...

Carry on,

Phil
 
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q-

those duct fans flow about 200cfm, some less...

WW
This would be in addition to the SPAL pull fans on the back of the IC.

Heck two hoses with two of those inline blowers would double the fresh air coming into the IC... if not more.

Add the two pullers plus the normal flow from the roof inlet... it can't make it any worse.
 

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thermocouple...

yea it's K type.

After reading up on the net and looking at pics of air sensors, I think I know why:

1) the thermocouple is sensing surface temps near by even though it's not touching. So the result is a measure non-contact proximity surface area + air.
2) most bought air sensors appear to have some sort of insulation on the probe itself, probably to isolate the probe to air only.

THink I got the 10C difference prior because the probe was near the clam after the car had been run. Ambient was 30s, thermocouple reading was 40s. So that probably explains it.When the car has warmed up and thermocouple in the shroud, temps shoot up to 55-60C. I'm suprised the difference between ambient and inner shroud is so great.

dont know why i didnt notice before but when the car is completely cold, the IAT and the thermocouple probe in question are giving off the exact same reading give or take 1-2C. Using a infrared temp gun clam surface temperature is 30-31C, more or less ambient.

Given 86F (30C)ambient air temp/warmed up car; Does 131F (55C) sound to be reasonable for air temp inside the IC shroud (highway speeds), when corresponding IAT is 109F (43C)?

If I can get reliable readings from the thermocouple, it makes sense to tap the inlet side of the IC pipe and take readings to understand change between inlet and outlet temps on the IC.

I'll try the innovate kit sensor tomorrow, but it's harder to work with, insulated with a yellow plug, looks like a the kind of thermo used on a turkey on thanksgiving. duct tape both to the roof and see what kind of readings come in.
 

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All thermocouples need to be calibrated! It's impossible to make the weld between the two metals the same in every one. K-type TC's are linear over a broad range so you really only need two calibration points. Is there a way to calibrate your instrument? You just need an accurate thermometer to calibrate - john.
 

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I'm just really surprised we haven't devised a foolproof, easy-to-install solution to get lots of cold air from the passenger side scoop to this friggin intercooler.

Even if someone makes a new shroud out of fiberglass that has two extra round inlets on that side...

Run some of this...



And one or two of these inline...

If someone wants to go the ducted fan route there are very powerful units available for electric model airplanes:

Electric Ducted Fans from Hobby Lobby!

I don't know what 20 oz of thrust equates to in cfm but it's gotta be loads more than our Spal fans.

The other problem with the roof duct is that the roof gets really hot in the sun - has anyone studied this aspect of the design?

-john.
 

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If someone wants to go the ducted fan route there are very powerful units available for electric model airplanes:

Electric Ducted Fans from Hobby Lobby!

I don't know what 20 oz of thrust equates to in cfm but it's gotta be loads more than our Spal fans.

The other problem with the roof duct is that the roof gets really hot in the sun - has anyone studied this aspect of the design?

-john.

John -

far too many year$ $pent with model airplane$ to admit thi$ - but at the designed *thrust* levels the motors have relatively short lifespans. Certainly not suitable for continuous use on a car. Then you need to drive the controller...but i digress...

WW
 
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