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Discussion Starter #1
I've kept an eye on the 2018 Evora 400s every now and again on listing sites. I noticed recently they all dropped considerably in listing price, 20-30k even. However, I also noticed that while they're still at dealers at these lower prices, a lot of them were listed before as New, and are now listed as Used, even though they're still at the dealer.

Did Lotus do something odd with the cars dealers had in inventory in order to dump warranty coverage?

For anyone looking, most of those bespoke color 2018 units are now listed <100k, some as low as the 80s.
 

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I've kept an eye on the 2018 Evora 400s every now and again on listing sites. I noticed recently they all dropped considerably in listing price, 20-30k even. However, I also noticed that while they're still at dealers at these lower prices, a lot of them were listed before as New, and are now listed as Used, even though they're still at the dealer.

Did Lotus do something odd with the cars dealers had in inventory in order to dump warranty coverage?

For anyone looking, most of those bespoke color 2018 units are now listed <100k, some as low as the 80s.
They didn't dump warranty, but started the clock
 
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Yeah, that $12k rebate from Lotus expired. So dealers went ahead and “bought” the cars, took the rebate and started the clock on the warranty under the notion that they won’t be able to sell the cars at the higher price once they’ve been advertised at the rebate price for so long.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
They didn't dump warranty, but started the clock
Yup, that's what I meant. It's a shame as the lack of warranty on an otherwise new Evora is probably a larger value hit than the price discount.

Can pretty much bet it means "in 3 years, don't expect any parts availability for these."
 

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Perhaps the new GTs hitting the U.S. market has caused the price drop on the 2018 400s. After all, how can you justify asking the same price as for a new GT (or more in some cases).
 
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Perhaps the new GTs hitting the U.S. market has caused the price drop on the 2018 400s. After all, how can you justify asking the same price as for a new GT (or more in some cases).
That was what I had *hoped*, but seeing the new -> used status flip made me suspicious of the warranty being started / non-MSO being a part of it also. Only reason I can think for Lotus to want to do that is because they expect to not be able to provide warranty service/parts beyond 3 years from now, which they'd be required to do otherwise.
 

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Dealers lie, but what I wrote above is the sum total of the reason . . . according to a dealer. I asked because I was considering a 2018 but didn’t think I could pull the trigger before the rebate expired. Then I came to my senses on the price delta for a 2018 over my trade in and gave up on the whole thing. I think you are reading way too much into it.
 

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Agreed. How many 2018's did they bring in? Have not seen many. The 2020 early release was a bit odd. I smell good deals around the corner. Eyes are open if mine acts up. If not, I keep her till she gets tired
 

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Only reason I can think for Lotus to want to do that is because they expect to not be able to provide warranty service/parts beyond 3 years from now, which they'd be required to do otherwise.
I agree with BJ^2 that you are overthinking it; the above sentence makes no sense.

A warranty is not an iron-clad, hell-or-high-water guarantee that something will happen. It is a contract like any other. If the entity you have a contract with cannot deliver on that contract, you can pursue them through the courts (or via arbitration, if that's what the contract says). If the entity goes bankrupt, you join the list of creditors with claims on the estate; if there isn't enough to settle all the creditors, you may get little or nothing.

The contract is only worth what the counterparty is good for, and a vanished car company wouldn't be good for much. Thus, Lotus would have no incentive to start warranty periods sooner rather than later -- quite the opposite in fact. This is setting aside the fact that planning several years in advance for a bankruptcy would be a foolish, not to mention fraudulent, thing for a company to be doing.

There's a common misconception that somehow the (US federal?) government "requires" car companies to carry a full stock of parts, or provide a certain level of service, or otherwise honor warranties no matter what. There are indeed laws specifying certain aspects of warranty conditions, for consumer protection and public interest reasons, e.g. around emissions equipment. However it's important to realize that is not the same as the government enforcing an individual's warranty, and it absolutely does not mean that there will be any recourse available to you if your warranty counterparty were to be liquidated.

Anyway, back to the original point, I would agree with you that having a warranty adds value to a car... but only to the degree one thinks one can draw on that warranty. If your only dealer is 800 miles away, or your dealer tech's a hack, or (Colin forbid) Lotus goes away, well then, you probably shouldn't be buying one of these cars unless you're good with a wrench! :grin2:
 

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I agree with BJ^2 that you are overthinking it; the above sentence makes no sense.

A warranty is not an iron-clad, hell-or-high-water guarantee that something will happen. It is a contract like any other. If the entity you have a contract with cannot deliver on that contract, you can pursue them through the courts (or via arbitration, if that's what the contract says). If the entity goes bankrupt, you join the list of creditors with claims on the estate; if there isn't enough to settle all the creditors, you may get little or nothing.

The contract is only worth what the counterparty is good for, and a vanished car company wouldn't be good for much. Thus, Lotus would have no incentive to start warranty periods sooner rather than later -- quite the opposite in fact. This is setting aside the fact that planning several years in advance for a bankruptcy would be a foolish, not to mention fraudulent, thing for a company to be doing.

There's a common misconception that somehow the (US federal?) government "requires" car companies to carry a full stock of parts, or provide a certain level of service, or otherwise honor warranties no matter what. There are indeed laws specifying certain aspects of warranty conditions, for consumer protection and public interest reasons, e.g. around emissions equipment. However it's important to realize that is not the same as the government enforcing an individual's warranty, and it absolutely does not mean that there will be any recourse available to you if your warranty counterparty were to be liquidated.

Anyway, back to the original point, I would agree with you that having a warranty adds value to a car... but only to the degree one thinks one can draw on that warranty. If your only dealer is 800 miles away, or your dealer tech's a hack, or (Colin forbid) Lotus goes away, well then, you probably shouldn't be buying one of these cars unless you're good with a wrench! :grin2:
Mic dropped :clap:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
What? I didn't suggest anything about Lotus going out of business/insolvent. I suggested they have a history of failing to keep necessary repair parts available to satisfy warranties for reasonable ownership periods, or provide notice for important safety updates (see: Evora SRS/Airbag problems, which they actually fixed, but didn't notify any owners). It has nothing to do with how good you are with a wrench or availability of service centers. Required warranty service/parts is the requirements you mention, that are indeed required by law for anything involving emissions, safety, etc. Beyond that, it dramatically impacts insurance, as you can see by how quickly the cars are totaled. It isn't the cost of the parts/repairs, it's the known lack of parts availability leading to non-economical repair.

You said a whole lot of words, but all you did was agree to the reason that we should expect values to continue to drop and/or stay low. It isn't that Lotus isn't around, it's that they simply *don't* try to keep parts available for a reasonable period.

Look, I hope I'm wrong, but they did the same thing with the 2014 leftovers, some of which are still at dealers "used" but new, and there were parts that went unavailable for them already in 2017. I'm just saying it's fishy, and a bad sign.

Upside is, the price drops are really quite good, so people who get them in the near term in the 80k or lower range while the warranty is still mostly full term, that's quite a good deal on them.
 

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I'm just saying it's fishy, and a bad sign.
You seem to be suggesting that Lotus would rather take a large, definite hit on revenue today (by selling new cars as "used" with partial warranties) than take the potential future risk of a relatively small financial hit of stocking some extra parts four years from now. Among the other things I was saying in my overly wordy post, I was trying to illustrate why a company would not think like that. ByJove's (and Guppy's) logic seems far more straightforward, don't you think?

I do agree with you that a buyer should prefer the not-really-used car with the heavy discount, though... mainly because I don't think a warranty from Lotus is likely to be terribly valuable, for the several reasons I mentioned.
 

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The dealer who sold me my car was really eager to punch the warranty because I'd paid for the car and of course he wanted it off his books. I had to tell him not to punch it until I picked it up. He wanted to punch it. Make of that what you will. I have several complicated theories.

Anyway, I've called on my warranty a number of times. My servicing dealer is local and I trust them. I'm glad I have recourse but for sure parts availability is a sore spot. It's hard to say just what you might have to wait for or how long. Sometimes, just a day or two sometimes weeks. Obviously, if you want what it has, and what it has is both subtle and somewhat arcane, this car could be for you. You have to like keeping busy as a driver. The car can be driven with extreme, perhaps unmatched fluidity but if you're like me there will be a learning curve. I'm not a particularly gifted driver but the car takes you to school and it makes you better. Also problems have been minor and haven't stopped the car but they occupy mind space and at the price this should be a premium experience. That can only be the case if problems are resolved crisply.

For me, the warranty has been valuable but the parts situation remains disappointing. I hope Lotus understands that the best customers they will ever have are the ones they have right now. Fixing this is crucial to success and it might as well start now.

It's a great car so you balance all this and decide.
 

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Yup. Lew pretty much summed it up. The Elige & Evora to me are utterly brilliant DRIVERS cars. You really can’t top them for driving experience at their price points and it’s that driving experience that I value so deeply (just ask anyone who’s driven rallies with me).

Also, the Elige/Evora are simply stunning to look at and I place a high value on that as well. Every time I walk out to my Lotus sitting in the garage, I gawk at it because it’s just drop dead sexy and that’s a huge thrill in the ownership experience. The modern day Lotuses just really do it for me aesthetically.

Another thing I place tremendous value on is the bulletproof powertrain and that’s because I love to run errands and such in the Lotus whenever the weather cooperates in our six month driving season.
I don’t want to have to worry about the reliability. I just want to drive it hard and put it away wet and then do it over and over again without the maintenance nightmare of say a F355.

All that said, the parts availability is a really big concern and that part of the ownership experience really needs to be improved. As an example, I’m concerned about my new GT getting tapped in the CF rear at a stoplight and it taking months and months to get a new CF bumper. Part of the reason I’m keeping my Elise SC is so I have a second fun car should my driving season be lost in the event of a lengthy repair to either car due to parts availability.
 

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If only somebody would see the wisdom of investing in parts support of the existing range, even if the current range is not the Lotus they see as their future. It's the best advertising and PR money Lotus could ever spend. For current owners and those considering a new car that's on the cusp of replacement, it would make a better and more meaningful statement than any new Evija and they could even organize it to be a profit center. Taking away the service angst that thin parts availability creates while buying a unique and unusual product is the major step to expanding the client base and creating a concrete foundation for future growth.

The promised pledge to become a main line supplier does not begin until this concern is addressed. Not tomorrow, not for "the new platform" not just for the products of the future but for the legacy car they are selling here right now. It will require investment to stock the slower moving bits. Perhaps this could be quantified as the cost to build a car from the parts stored in this country. Maybe it's the cost to priority ship any unusual parts. Maybe it's just sucking up the cost of having some dead inventory lying around because we who trusted Lotus with our tens of thousands of dollars might need something unusual stat. The returns on that truly modest investment would be enormous good will and perehaps even significant savings as opposed to shipping individual parts one at a time. Or, as seems more likely, making clients wait while they assemble larger shipments to save on freight. Every one of us who has purchased a new car from Lotus has already also purchased each and every part in a 4xx at least once! At retail! It seems only fair that Lotus would be willing to do the same for its loyal customers!

What are they waiting for?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Agreed Lew, that's my mystery too. I'm with you guys in the "love" for the car. That said, I can't easily sell mine because to get a decent price, I need some parts that I can't get so I can fix it up myself and get the value it should have. Which also means I can't trade-up to a newer model, for the same problem, except doubled. I also can't bring myself to buy the current generation at the price they want, because in doing so I'd be planning on keeping the car for 7-10 years. I'd be happy to pony up for a warranty from Lotus for 5-7 years, probably even a maintenance agreement. Because I *would* trust them if they sold it, because it would be an indication to me that they are willing to commit to doing their best in that availability.

The whole point I was trying to get across is to me this is them reaffirming they aren't willing to do that yet. I get the dealer aspect of it mentioned above, but I do think it's both. Because the dealers know this issue too, so despite the financial loss, it's in their better interests to let the customers know the car is "used" with a warranty that is going away, than to sell a customer a car with a warranty that the dealer (and likely service center) also doesn't expect to be able to uphold.

McLaren had a very similar problem and MP4-12C (and to a lesser extent the 570/650) prices were absolutely plummeting as a result. They recently added a certified/re-warrantied program, and it seems like it has helped. Prices seem like they've stabilized, and from what I've read, people are happily buying up those (expensive!) warranty/maintenance plans. Time will tell if this will actually work out for either McLaren or the owners, but it's very much what I had hoped to see Lotus attempt with these new models (and the increase in price).
 

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New 400 is looking to be a heck of buy at the discounts being offered. Local dealer doesn't have one new Lotus in stock.
 

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.... That said, I can't easily sell mine because to get a decent price, I need some parts that I can't get so I can fix it up myself and get the value it should have. ....
Being somewhat new to the Evora world, and not to derail the conversation, but what parts can't you get?
 
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