[Siman]

Hello I'm from the Toyota MR2 forums. I know what am I doing here...

Well I'm trying to put together a group buy for a GR family compliant dry sump system. I'm going through each of the communities that run the GR block family to see if anyone is interested.

The 2GR-FE is a popular swap into the old Toyota MR2 and these days I guess you can call it the poor man's lotus. But the 2GRFE is a great engine in its stock form but as you try to extract more power from it, you start running into issues.

First issue you have is the valve system. If you have ever thrown a rod or lotus told you that your going to need a new engine. Its because of the valve lifters bounce back and knock the rocker arms off at high RPM. Most of the time this will result in a stuck valve. The engine will bend rods, throw rods, bend valves, and punch holes in pistons ect... Its a combination of factors that cause them to bounce that is the inherent problem of the hydraulic valve lifters, oil pressure, and air in the oil from oil pump cavitation at high rpm.

Toyota knows this is a problem in the 2GRFE and the 2ARFE motors but since it is considered a lower class motor, it never got the revisions that they put in the UR family of motors in the Lexus. A solution to the valve lifter problem is to use GM ECOTech solid valve lifters. They drop right into place of the toyota hydraulic valve lifters.

Now the thing is that's a fine fix if you want your engine to last into the 8k range. But for a time attack car or a track car your going to need to fix the oil problems. Enter me I'm trying to put together a GR family compliant dry sump system. This will fix the oil pressure problems and with the addition of a water/air separator will fix the problem of air in the oil.

Now since dry sump systems are fairly expensive I'm trying to cut costs by making this system interchangeable between the GR family of engines. This includes the Evora, Tacoma, FJ, 4runner, and GR swapped cars.

You can see the thread of inquiry over at the Tacoma forums here and the start of my 2gr build here at the MR2 forums.

 

[Buckwheat]

When you say "extract more power", how much power are you referring to before you start to see problems? I would think this engine can handle 400hp safely?

I have a 13 Evora S with some performance mods, which I do not intend to track but might do some autocross.

 

[DominusFL]

7,500 RPM wasn't enough for yah? Remember, that's 2,000 above Toyota's own redline for the same engine.

 

[LEAD2CRM]

Hello I'm from the Toyota MR2 forums. I know what am I doing here...

Well I'm trying to put together a group buy for a GR family compliant dry sump system. I'm going through each of the communities that run the GR block family to see if anyone is interested.

The 2GR-FE is a popular swap into the old Toyota MR2 and these days I guess you can call it the poor man's lotus. But the 2GRFE is a great engine in its stock form but as you try to extract more power from it, you start running into issues.

First issue you have is the valve system. If you have ever thrown a rod or lotus told you that your going to need a new engine. Its because of the valve lifters bounce back and knock the rocker arms off at high RPM. Most of the time this will result in a stuck valve. The engine will bend rods, throw rods, bend valves, and punch holes in pistons ect... Its a combination of factors that cause them to bounce that is the inherent problem of the hydraulic valve lifters, oil pressure, and air in the oil from oil pump cavitation at high rpm.

Toyota knows this is a problem in the 2GRFE and the 2ARFE motors but since it is considered a lower class motor, it never got the revisions that they put in the UR family of motors in the Lexus. A solution to the valve lifter problem is to use GM ECOTech solid valve lifters. They drop right into place of the toyota hydraulic valve lifters.

Now the thing is that's a fine fix if you want your engine to last into the 8k range. But for a time attack car or a track car your going to need to fix the oil problems. Enter me I'm trying to put together a GR family compliant dry sump system. This will fix the oil pressure problems and with the addition of a water/air separator will fix the problem of air in the oil.

Now since dry sump systems are fairly expensive I'm trying to cut costs by making this system interchangeable between the GR family of engines. This includes the Evora, Tacoma, FJ, 4runner, and GR swapped cars.

You can see the thread of inquiry over at the Tacoma forums here and the start of my 2gr build here at the MR2 forums.

Welcome to my new domicile. I am a former spyder owner and member at spyderchat. It was because of that forum and car that I foudn out about Lotus. You might remember me by name, whip and 2zz-ge swap?

2zz-ge engine swap with 5 speed transmission, Power-DURA Race Clutch, Custom Short Shifter & Bushings, Unorthodox Racing Lightened Pulley, Unorthodox Racing Under-driven and lightened Crank Pulley & Unorthodox Racing Lightened Alternator Pulley, OBX Cold Air Intake, Custom 2zz Header Manifold, CHE Down pipe, CHE Test Pipe, Custom Magnaflow Exhaust, Woods Cross-Drilled & Slotted Rotors, Axxis Semi-Metallic Brake Pads, Koni Adjustable 3-way Adjustable Struts, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs, Front + Rear Endlinks, All CHE Bracing. Carbing Rear Lower Brace, Kirk Urethane Motor mount Inserts, Stainless Steel Clutch Line.

 

[invictusmaneo]

I'll watch it but can't really say I'm interested at this point. Cost and quality on something like this is crucial

 

[switch311]

Im interested in your build and seeing what power you end up getting. What are you doing for engine management? why if your only going for 400whp would you go through all the effort to lower the engine down to a 3.1l? Wouldnt the 3.7L you get from just changing blocks along with the built head/lifters be more then enough to get the power your looking for comfortably?

 

[Siman]

niclipse sorry I don't remember I'm in the SW20 area mostly. But that is a hell of a nice ZZW30.

My RPM target is 12000RPM 800WHP for time attack. When it comes to track more power strokes per second allows for a smother power delivery.

For the EMS Im going to be running a AEM Infinity 6 ECU with one O2 sender per cylinder. By lowering the stroke and increasing the bore. It allows the rod and piston to travel less distance allowing the engine's RPM to climb higher. Since my MR2 is in the area of 2200lbs I don't need torque. Yes I could get the power I want from the 3.7L at a lower RPM but this is a time attack car so smother the power delivery the better.

TBH I never knew why lotus didn't mod the engine from the factory the 2GR 3.5L in the Evora is more than enough to propel a 4000+lbs minivan to some killer speeds. A sports car is suppose to be made for track. But it seams lotus has been relying on ECU tuning over engine work these days. Don't get me wrong the Evora is nice and all, and Id kill to have one :drool:. But from the times Ive driven one it always seems like it wants to be a sports car, but ends up being a cappuccino runner. Then again at almost 80k its aimed at a different market.

 

[Julian73]

Sorry to rain on your build parade as you are not here to promote your build but rather just the sump. 12000 rpm out of this engine, with factory assortment of cranks, valves, cams, rods, timing chains, etc.??? To win a race you must first finish the race! 12k will triple the inertial loading of these moving components. How many seconds do you want to run the engine. Then we get to a gearbox that will spin that fast without harmonics destroying the shafts... I am not even talking about how to get it to shift. Now, to you credit; I am disregarding your budget .. Maybe you are willing/able to throw a few hundred k into this.

 

[invictusmaneo]

FWIW...cosworth had tons of trouble maintaining high load, high RPM use on the basic layout of this engine in their 4l race motors....if they couldn't do it......


That being said, a dry sump would be nice. But there are a lot of obstacles out there.

 

[Julian73]

FWIW...cosworth had tons of trouble maintaining high load, high RPM use on the basic layout of this engine in their 4l race motors....if they couldn't do it......


That being said, a dry sump would be nice. But there are a lot of obstacles out there.

Exactly, their engines give way at 7400 rpm. And with that I will revise my cost into the millions to develop a 12k version.

 

[Siman]

Sorry to rain on your build parade as you are not here to promote your build but rather just the sump. 12000 rpm out of this engine, with factory assortment of cranks, valves, cams, rods, timing chains, etc.??? To win a race you must first finish the race! 12k will triple the inertial loading of these moving components. How many seconds do you want to run the engine. Then we get to a gearbox that will spin that fast without harmonics destroying the shafts... I am not even talking about how to get it to shift. Now, to you credit; I am disregarding your budget .. Maybe you are willing/able to throw a few hundred k into this.

I'm only answering questions that have been asked of me. But since we are going to go into the build of the motor yes I do have money to throw at this considering Im building a time attack car. But with our magical world of computers and equipment, I can get my build done. What part of solid lifters, deepened lash caps/rocker arms, extended valve tips, custom CAM profiles, titanium rods, forged aluminum pistons, a forged crank based off a 5GRFE crank considered stock?

Now back to the dry sump system, the reason why Im doing this is the GR family of engine is used throughout the toyota line up and we have no dry sump system yet. I could make a one of setup but then nothing will ever get pushed with these engines. The truck side of the house needs it for more ground clearance, naturally speed, and the inherent problems of the stock set up. If anyone wants to track the Evora seriously it would be much easier to grab this kit. Sorry for trying to help people out, Ill go back to my peasant MR2 forums.

 

[Julian73]

Lotus Racing does offer a dry sump for this block, but admittedly at considerable cost. As to stock parts bin, I was referring to 5GR crank and rods, I don't think that model has much of an aftermarket following. Again Lotus racing is offering this engine modified in various tunes up to 4L normal aspirated in 360, 400, 450 and 500 Hp variants including 24hr LeMans endurance version, most parts are from Cosworth and Swindon Engineering .. These are not 12000 rpm engines.

 

[CFRP_King]

One day I'd like to get the Cosworth engine. I've seen images of both the Cosworth and Swindon engines, but haven't read about their power, compatibility, or pricing.

Maybe BOE will provide an alternative :UK:

 

[invictusmaneo]

Well I hope that you will provide us updates on both the build and dry sump. I am interested in watching the development of both

 

[terryo]

i'm in the market for a dry sump pan right now. is this all dreamland stuff or realworld??. i've got a 2GR supercharged sitting in my Exige.

I saw a post suggesting Rogue in UK made such a pan, but i've had no luck trying to communicate with them before

let me know if such a device is available

 

[bigbump]

You're on the right path with the GM solid lifters and the 5GR crank.

That being said, you don't need 12k out of this motor. Just keep it a 3.2 and rev to 8500, you'll hit your hp goals and have a smooth enough power band. Im also assuming you're running an EFR 9180 at 32psi.

Also at 8500rpm, you don't need all that dry sump complication. Just run an accusump.

 

[Julian73]

Any updates on th OP's progress?