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Noob, my friend, take this as a return favor for the wheel & tail lights. And take it too as just my opinion, but what Cal & David said above should be heeded. Especially Cal't first sentence. So what, to do? get street legal sticky tires and if you use them to feel the difference as Cal explained you will probably hurry up the useful life of your 90K+ engine. Until that happens research your options so when the motor does let go you will know what you want and maybe you would've squirreled away some $ to get exactly what you crave. And be patient (though maybe you won't have to be too patient). The anticipation is usually more enjoyable than the finished result.
 
Noob, my friend, take this as a return favor for the wheel & tail lights. And take it too as just my opinion, but what Cal & David said above should be heeded. Especially Cal't first sentence. So what, to do? get street legal sticky tires and if you use them to feel the difference as Cal explained you will probably hurry up the useful life of your 90K+ engine. Until that happens research your options so when the motor does let go you will know what you want and maybe you would've squirreled away some $ to get exactly what you crave. And be patient (though maybe you won't have to be too patient). The anticipation is usually more enjoyable than the finished result.
I agree 100%

If you head up to a nice mountain road,that four banger will come into it's own fast enough :)

Alan
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
Thanks all for your input and thanks Mr. Maxvelocity for your warning.

I have opted to stay with my existing boost which is at 1Bar. Got the turbo rebuilt per Mr. Dangerous' suggestions. Same boost but better response. All is fine and great!
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
NOOB, sounds like great fun (not). Might it just be easier to sell our car and buy a V8? Probably would be cheaper!
thought about it for a little bit but didn't try too hard to sell the car. Couldn't find the nuggets to get rid of it. Too much time and money invested. Although I do like the interior of the V8 much better.
 
Noob,
First, I'll say that I am rather new into Esprits and certainly no guru on the subject.
Not having driven a V8 myself, I'd say from reading here and TLF, and speaking to owners of both, that you should keep your 4-pot. Better steering, lighter, better in turns, and just optimise what you have.
Brakes, Tires, brakelines, optimal coolant, engine oil and gearbox oil. Better pads, and better complete exhaust. Lighten some Things over time, and save time when accelerating.
In my Humble view, the V8 is too heavy and is a brake hard, turn, then accelerate after the turn-car. Well, in some sense of the Word. I'd stick to the 4-pot and optimise that.
In my view, the V8 is more like a sportscar for cruising, and the 4-pot a curve-eater. Anyway, some have written, that the more power you get into a Esprit, the more it will Flex.
The car mag that drove both the Sport300 and Sport350 wrote that the Sport300 is the better car. Power not always the answer. More about driving dynamics.
No offense intended to the happy V8 people out there intended.
There are many small Things to do, and just getting the gearshift perfect all the time, will get you going fast.
Get rid of non-needed weight in the car and get moving ;)
optimising porting, or the inlet manifold's gaskets to aluminium is already something. Everything should be confirmed and tested on a dyno, so you can also read fueling etc. You know, many small Things combined is not 1+1=2, but 3.

I jsut changed to the newish Castrol Edge FST Ti,a s they claim that filmstrength is nearly double. Worth taking. I called Castrol and had a long talk with them on oils.
I used the previous model Castrol Edge FST untill now.

On the other hand, I also feel quite sure, that there are a few things to be done, without the engine exploding right away. There are so many fast engines today, and it's worth lookinginto how they came up with that power. And the Sport300 and the S4s had more punch.

I've been talking to a friend WHO have tuned VW's and Audi's for over a decade, and of course bringing a 250 Hp engine up to 650 Hp shortens the life it can have.
But what mostly breaks Down in all his builds, are the gearboxes, which he already strengthened... 3 runs on a 1/4-mile, and then a new box. Streetdriving every half year.

On another subject, both some of my friends and I have experienced, that driving a beautiful car like the Esprit, kind of provokes other cardrivers to beat the cr.p out of their own car, normal one or sports-ditto, to overtake or stick to the Esprit, in such a way, that it gets dangerous or just killing their car.

Other than that, I think many wise by experience Words were spoken here.

Just my two-pence.

Cheers,
Redfox.
 
... driving a beautiful car like the Esprit, kind of provokes other cardrivers to beat the cr.p out of their own car, normal one or sports-ditto, to overtake or stick to the Esprit, in such a way, that it gets dangerous or just killing their car.


Redfox.
HaaHaa,

Occasionally I have the need to drive my plebeian "company car" on the same rural back-roads that I drive the Esprit on. :D


And at least once per trip during these times, I tend to drive straight off the road because I've taken the curves TOO FAST. -eek-


The Esprit's abilities are so excellent!! :up:

+++++++++++++

Get rid of non-needed weight in the car and get moving
Regards losing weight:

How much do those Rear Wings weigh??????? rotfl

(That's the first time I've ranted about this all year, oh well, another resolution broken.) :facepalm :panic:

+++++++++++++


Lastly, if you have never driven a V8 Esprit, don't knock them. I have, and they are powerful monsters, they just require re-calibrating your driving senses to enjoy. But they ARE enjoyable nonetheless. :coolnana:
 
Lastly, if you have never driven a V8 Esprit, don't knock them. I have, and they are powerful monsters, they just require re-calibrating your driving senses to enjoy. But they ARE enjoyable nonetheless. :coolnana:
Yeah, but powerful monster isn't what comes to mind when I think Lotus. Brit muscle car maybe, like a TVR Cerbera. A scream to drive in negative & positive ways, but not the essence of Lotus.
 
Hmmm...... I don't want to "knock" them, but I see them as little bit different cars, than the four cylinder cousins. Maybe intented for another market or group of buyers, with near 80 kilos of engine and added comfort and softer springs; I don't know.? Sure, I'd like to drive one and I'm sure my wife would like the comfort-seat ;) Maybe even have one, next to the 4-pot ;) Hmmm... I need a bigger garage.

Cheers,
Redfox.
Member of the wing-society ;)
 
Hmmm...... I don't want to "knock" them, but I see them as little bit different cars, than the four cylinder cousins. Maybe intented for another market or group of buyers, with near 80 kilos of engine and added comfort and softer springs; I don't know.? Sure, I'd like to drive one and I'm sure my wife would like the comfort-seat ;) Maybe even have one, next to the 4-pot ;) Hmmm... I need a bigger garage.

Cheers,
Redfox.
Member of the wing-society ;)
Yes, the V-8 is a little heavier but it makes up for it in other ways. The "secret" is to exploit a cars positives while minimizing it's negatives. For most of the people who have driven both they generally have a hard time going back the the 4 cyl (that is until they figure out it is usually more expensive to maintain the V-8!). As for losing weight, the best place to start (and the hardest) is the nut behind the wheel.
David Teitelbaum
David Teitelbaum
 
Absoloutely agree about the weight, David! ;)
That's why I've been on a diet, and now weigh in at 74 Kilogram, and as I am 1,88meter, I think that's it for loosing weight.
I've taken off lots of kilos on mine, while I don't want to change the look and character of the car.
The way I see it, I think it's about getting the best out of what you have, stabilizing the car's systems and components as good as possible. Tanks, Electric chargecoolerpump, aluminium double coolant tank, fresh coolant hoses and fuelhoses, fresh Lotac poly bushes, and fresh tires etc.
The last many years, I've seen countless examples of people, who invested much time and money into a making their car faster, but saved on running old hard tires.
I have a fresh example of that from last fall: I have a friend who after seeing my SE, wanted a similar car. He found a Turbo Stevens car, and begins to drive it. And while he's impressed with what it can do, he does not (yet) change the tires because he says there's still lot's of rubber on them. Well yes, but they are stone hard. So, one evening when we drove rather fast down a steep hilly windy road in the evening, one blocked light pod splashed it's water all over the windscreen in a hard turn, and the tires skid out, and the car spun 180 degrees. Then we drove to me, and put on my fresh tires, and voila, no probs and faster curves. ;) He is now convinced that he is in urgent need of fresh tires... ;)
Sure, Nm is hard to beat. Hmm, so I bought a few V8's lately. In scale though ;)
The Sport300 would be the ultimate for me.
David, do you see the V8 as a more point and shoot car?
Anyway, I like all Lotus'es.

Kind regards,
Redfox.
 
Yeah, but powerful monster isn't what comes to mind when I think Lotus.
"Monsters" only in that the power curve takes some getting used to (compared with the 4 cylinder cars).




If you drive a V8 the same as a S4s, you WILL be surprised at the low end torque that is available. -eek- This will have ramifications ;) if you don't EASE into the experience.





But, I like my 4 banger with the "superior" shift action of the Citroen 'box, so don't listen to me... :shrug:


^^^^^ (There, I've opened up a totally new slant on this conversation with that statement, haven't I??) rotfl

 
"Monsters" only in that the power curve takes some getting used to (compared with the 4 cylinder cars).




If you drive a V8 the same as a S4s, you WILL be surprised at the low end torque that is available. -eek- This will have ramifications ;) if you don't EASE into the experience.





But, I like my 4 banger with the "superior" shift action of the Citroen 'box, so don't listen to me... :shrug:


^^^^^ (There, I've opened up a totally new slant on this conversation with that statement, haven't I??) rotfl

The way I see it (or feel it when I drive them) the 8 is not an improved version of the 4. It's a different car. Whether its differences make it better, or preferred, depends on what kind of driving experience is wanted. When I was looking for an Esprit the 8's extra hp & torque made me consider other cars, mostly the 90-95 ZR-1 Lotus/Vettes. Even more hp & torque and I liked the Lotus connection but pulled myself back from muscle to my original purpose - a (somewhat) lighter car that likes the rpm's kept up. On the street the 4 for me is a blast; the 8 a grunt. Nice that Lotus gave you the choice. Hoping they will do it again w/ some new models.
 
Absoloutely agree about the weight, David! ;)
That's why I've been on a diet, and now weigh in at 74 Kilogram, and as I am 1,88meter, I think that's it for loosing weight.
I've taken off lots of kilos on mine, while I don't want to change the look and character of the car.
The way I see it, I think it's about getting the best out of what you have, stabilizing the car's systems and components as good as possible. Tanks, Electric chargecoolerpump, aluminium double coolant tank, fresh coolant hoses and fuelhoses, fresh Lotac poly bushes, and fresh tires etc.
The last many years, I've seen countless examples of people, who invested much time and money into a making their car faster, but saved on running old hard tires.
I have a fresh example of that from last fall: I have a friend who after seeing my SE, wanted a similar car. He found a Turbo Stevens car, and begins to drive it. And while he's impressed with what it can do, he does not (yet) change the tires because he says there's still lot's of rubber on them. Well yes, but they are stone hard. So, one evening when we drove rather fast down a steep hilly windy road in the evening, one blocked light pod splashed it's water all over the windscreen in a hard turn, and the tires skid out, and the car spun 180 degrees. Then we drove to me, and put on my fresh tires, and voila, no probs and faster curves. ;) He is now convinced that he is in urgent need of fresh tires... ;)
Sure, Nm is hard to beat. Hmm, so I bought a few V8's lately. In scale though ;)
The Sport300 would be the ultimate for me.
David, do you see the V8 as a more point and shoot car?
Anyway, I like all Lotus'es.

Kind regards,
Redfox.
The V-8 is basically the S4s with upgraded systems and a V-8 engine. It is NOT a "point and shoot" car. You must think further ahead and always stay further ahead of the car since it is not quite as nimble as the 4 cyl. You have to prepare and execute turns sooner but you have gobs more power when coming out of the turns to take advantage of. It all comes down to the skill of the driver. A better driver can make the most of what he has and could outdrive a V-8 with a 4 cyl or vice versa. Most drivers will not get close to the extremes of the driving envelope to really exploit the differences. I prefer the V-8 as it is the most advanced of the series of the Esprit with a fully functioning Engine Mangement System, a better trans (Renault) better shifting (after '98), and passenger and driver airbags. The 4 cyl is simpler and lighter. More of what the Esprit was originally meant to be, more of a driver's car, a racer with less creature comforts (especially the early ones). This is not an indictment of the Esprit. It happens to every model line of every manufacturer as the model matures. They tend to keep adding and modifying till they have to revamp the whole thing and come out with a new model (think Elise/Exige). Makes the model heavier and more complicated till the process begins again.
David Teitelbaum
 
To play with the V8's one just has to drive a bit more precise and not make as many mistakes than they do. Like if you brake to late and bleed off too much energy in the middle of a turn. After similar errors in judgement the V8's are capable of getting back up to speed quicker. But the 4 cyl being the lighter car is a bit more stable in multiple change of directions like tighter S and progressively tighter S turns like what many refer to as a witch's hat. Depending on the skill level of the driver V8's will also have to be more careful when encountering something like a corkscrew.

So there are ways to vex the V8 driver and gain some respect for the 4 cyl. If driven correctly the 4 cyl favors a tighter more complex or combination corners with a number of transitions in a row rather than the straight forward sweeper that will favor the V8.

Similar tactics are used when going head to head with something like a Ferrari F355 or 360. Especially if you are pack leader or can get them to follow you for a fun one on one.

There are very few instances when the opposition driver drives in the 10/10ths range. They may think they are but in most cases they are not even close. In most situations I think I drive in the 7/10ths range. So the performance levels even out a bit and for most street and casual track day situations it all comes down to who drops the hammer 1st and if one gives up what lead they have gained through mediocre driving.

The performance of the machines are close enough it may just come down to who is driving. Hopefully on the occasions when I play with the V8's the drivers would have grown accustomed to relying on the the power/torque and will not be concentrating so much on their driving. LOL For me it is much more fun to spank than to be spanked.
 
Hey, you could always consider the 4 cylinder cars to be the FIRST Lotus with Cylinder De-Activation... LOL

And the V8 fanciers would say "Too bad you can't turn it off"


BIG GRIN


++++++++++

Both variations are GREAT in my opinion.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Thanks guys for your input and responses. Car drives great and pulling very strong even with high miles. Just love some spirited hwy driving every once in a while is all.

With all the talk of handling of the 4 cyl vs the 8, I don't think I would ever take my S4 to the track as I would be too stressed if my high mileage engine should fail. The Esprit has always been my dream car and now that I have one, I won't jeopardize it. But don't let the NOOB name fool ya! :D I have had plenty of seat time. It's been a while, but Wife and I used to track a ton with the local clubs.

Planning on taking one of these back to the track.





More likely the Honda since it would be cheaper to beat up.

Have a nice day fellas!
 
I agree with Redfox on the porting...pull your plenum and secondary injector housing and port those...there are some real impediments to smooth flow in the chargecooler outlet, secondary injector inlet and outlet and plenum inlet, along with gasket matching at the secondary injector outlet to plenum backplate inlet. You can gain up to 30 cfm there for the price of a porting bit and some sanding rolls for your dremel. Better boost response and not quite the stress as a bigger turbo will cretate with extra heat with increased IAT's.

If it was good enough for the Sport 300 24 Hours of Le Mans team it will surely be fine for the street car...might also think of duplicating the Sport 300 engine chassis brace as upgrade projects.

I did the porting on mine and while my engine beautification project is not quite complete (powdered my intake chrome and all prior orange parts crackle red along with some polishing of the fuel rail and chrome powdering assorted brackets, thermostat housing and associated water pipe...final assembly as we speak), after finishing the porting I KNOW flow will increase with that big lip on the secondary injector housing removed and larger mouth into the plenum.
 
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